# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 141
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2802 "2011-12-09T10:24:32Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > he’s not evil, he’s just…pragmatic. I have one word for you: FLAN ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2803 "2011-12-09T13:02:51Z")
And \* that\* is why I’m always oh-so-very careful not to scroll further down the page until I have to. Glancing at those last panels early would have weakened the punchline – but being able to snicker at what I _knew_ was coming once I read the words “Ring of True Seeing”? Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2804 "2011-12-09T13:06:30Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Tarquin is simply awesome. Evil beyond a doubt, but he’s not a sadist and not an egomaniac. He can see what’s in front of his face and plan at least five steps down the road. He isn’t petty. > > I can’t wait to see the next strip – I hope Nale gets what’s coming to him but good. Tarquin also provides an interesting contrast with Xykon. Both are clearly intelligent but Tarquin uses wisdom to achieve his goals. Xykon, on the other hand, is NOT truly wise and covers that with raw power. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2805 "2011-12-09T18:33:45Z")
I think the interesting comparison is Tarquin and Shojo. One’s good and one’s evil. But because they use similar means to achieve their opposing ends, they end up acting the same. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2806 "2011-12-09T19:18:03Z")
So, why would Tarquin [del]lie[/del] mislead them? Or did he not know Nale was there until he walked into the room? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2807 "2011-12-09T19:55:09Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > So, why would Tarquin [del]lie[/del] mislead them? Tarquin probably wants to kill Nale himself. Having Elan do it would be OK, but not anyone else in the group. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2808 "2011-12-09T20:23:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **MrDibble** : > So Tarquin clearly knows about their Gate quest, given “It is in our own best interest that they succeed” coupled with “they have zero chance of catching Nale” can only mean “succeed in the main quest”. Not necessarily. He knows they’re on a quest to save the world, but he doesn’t necessarily know any details of how they’re going to do that, or what threat they’re saving it from. He _might_ know, of course: He knows an awful lot, after all. But he doesn’t _need_ to know. I do wonder, though, why he didn’t grab ahold of Nale before he tipped his hand (or rather, finger). ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2809 "2011-12-09T20:46:22Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos;14548830 I do wonder, though, why he didn’t grab ahold of Nale before he tipped his hand (or rather, finger).[/QUOTE] He probably wanted to see that expression on Nale’s face. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2810 "2011-12-10T01:44:17Z")
Nale doesn’t look like he’s in any better shape than when we last saw him. Given that he was on the wrong end of a Harm spell last time does that mean he still only has 1HP? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2811 "2011-12-10T02:05:44Z")
Presumably so. Which means that it should be really, really easy for Malack and Tarquin to incapacitate him right now. Or kill him, of course, though I doubt Malack will want it to be that quick. I expect that Malack has a couple dozen slow, painful deaths planned for Nale (raising him after each one, until he reaches the point where raising is impossible). Which does lead one to wonder, how is Nale going to get out of this one? It would go against all dramatic rules for him to die irrevokably this far before the climax of the story, and without any of the protagonists even present. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2812 "2011-12-10T02:44:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which does lead one to wonder, how is Nale going to get out of this one? It would go against all dramatic rules for him to die irrevokably this far before the climax of the story, and without any of the protagonists even present. Do you mean the climax of the overall story? Cause it’s definitely looking like this book is going to feature the resolution of the subplot with the Linear Guild. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2813 "2011-12-10T03:49:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I do wonder, though, why he didn’t grab ahold of Nale before he tipped his hand (or rather, finger). Speculating here, but I assume Tarquin planned ahead and has a squad of guards surrounding the area. Because from what we’ve seen, Tarquin always plans ahead. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2814 "2011-12-10T03:53:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the interesting comparison is Tarquin and Shojo. One’s good and one’s evil. But because they use similar means to achieve their opposing ends, they end up acting the same. Is Shojo good? Heck, as far as I remember, the only information that we have is that he’s not Lawful. Which is a contrast to Tarquin in itself, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2815 "2011-12-10T04:03:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I do wonder, though, why he didn’t grab ahold of Nale before he tipped his hand (or rather, finger). Because it was more dramatic this way, and while Tarquin can be pragmatic, he’s willing to put a good scene ahead of a good plan. I think the comparison between Tarquin and Shojo is pretty interesting. Both pretend to be more oblivious than they really are, for one thing. And Shojo (who I seem to recall was confirmed as Chaotic Good, but I could be wrong) impeded the Order’s quest for the greater good, while Tarquin (who is Lawful Evil) aided the Order’s quest for his own personal gain. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2816 "2011-12-10T04:32:48Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Do you mean the climax of the overall story? Cause it’s definitely looking like this book is going to feature the resolution of the subplot with the Linear Guild. Disagree – some version of the LG should probably last until (near) the end of the main story. Which may mean that Nale is ground into sheep dip with mustard sauce very soon, but then much later Sabine (maybe in exchange for favors to the Three Fiends) resurrects him 200 strips or so from now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2817 "2011-12-10T05:00:55Z")
Shojo’s alignment was mentioned in [410](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2818 "2011-12-10T07:01:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Disagree – some version of the LG should probably last until (near) the end of the main story. Which may mean that Nale is ground into sheep dip with mustard sauce very soon, but then much later Sabine (maybe in exchange for favors to the Three Fiends) resurrects him 200 strips or so from now. No, it ends now. This is the Order’s third encounter with the LG. The rules of drama require that it be the last; otherwise, it’ll just get repetitious. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2819 "2011-12-10T07:25:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, it ends now. This is the Order’s third encounter with the LG. The rules of drama require that it be the last; otherwise, it’ll just get repetitious. UNLESS they come back unexpectedly 10-100x stronger! By surprise! Threatening the Tarquin! The Snarl! and Even Time Itself! Bwahahahaha! Seriously, of _course_ the LG can come back, or at least Nale and Sabine can. As long as it’s Unexpected! And Epic! Ha! This totally fits the ROD. Because I said so. 🙂 Even more seriously, I’ll bet you US $1 that it doesn’t end now. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2820 "2011-12-10T07:52:41Z")
Perhaps Tarquin will “have a use” for Nale - something that’ll keep him around (alive or undead) for later, but be unpleasant enough that even Malack will go along with it. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2821 "2011-12-11T01:27:07Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Nale doesn’t look like he’s in any better shape than when we last saw him. Given that he was on the wrong end of a Harm spell last time does that mean he still only has 1HP? He’s _slightly_ less beat-up. So maybe he had a small healing potion or two on hand. Not that an extra five or ten hp is going to do him all that great, given the mess he’s in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=140) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=142)