# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 155
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3082 "2012-01-14T22:48:18Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > (Just curious as to whether it was a Pit Fiend, as it’s my front-runner theory for what the MiTD is. Obviously, a baby or child version. I know, creature that’s an embodiment of pure evil, they don’t have kids, etc… A lot of the powers the MiTD has—Wish, high strength, ugliness, brains—it fits. Well, that or it’s something in Deities and Demigods that didn’t get converted over to 3.5, with CR\>19 or so. It should be possible to easily guess, given there just aren’t that many creatures with that high a CR, that can fit in that box, that can also be charmed and can cast wish/greater teleport/plane shift/you-name-the-‘escape’-spell) Didn’t the Order (well, Durkon, Elan and Vaarsuvius, anyway) already fight a Pit Fiend? And it was gigantic, not small enough to fit under an umbrella. Edit: Ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3083 "2012-01-16T02:17:46Z")
Which character do you think will “write” the preface of the next book? Here’s the ones who’ve been used so far: Dungeon Crawlin’ Fools: Belkar On the Origin of PCs: Redcloak No Cure for the Paladin Blues: Vaarsuvius Start of Darkness: Miko Miyazaki War And XPs: Elan Don’t Split the Party: Roy Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales: Xykon So the pattern appears to be that members of the Order introduce the main series books. And no character’s been used twice. So Haley and Durkon are the two front runners. Or will Burlew break the pattern and have somebody like O-Chul or Celia or Nale do the preface? ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3084 "2012-01-19T18:07:21Z")
[828: A Study in Viridian](http://www.GiantITP.com/comics/oots0828.html) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3085 "2012-01-19T18:09:31Z")
[828 A Study In Viridian](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html) Edit - Ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3086 "2012-01-19T18:12:43Z")
I’m not getting the title of this one. Viridian? I know it’s a shade of green; so what? Is it a play off ‘A Study in Scarlet?’ Hmm. Tsukiko and Redcloak really don’t get on with one another, do they? I could see there being a direct confrontation at some climax point, and I don’t see it going Tsukiko’s way. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3087 "2012-01-19T18:47:49Z")
Real Housewives of Tarterus? Really? Aw man, that’s just funny. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3088 "2012-01-19T18:48:19Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I’m not getting the title of this one. Viridian? I know it’s a shade of green; so what? Is it a play off ‘A Study in Scarlet?’ Hmm. Neil Gaiman wrote “A Study In Emerald”, which was a Chtulhu-themed spoof of A Study in Scarlet told from the point of view of Moriarty and Colonel Moran (or whatever the name of his big game hunter sidekick was). That being said, I doubt Burlew was going for a double reference - more likely it’s simply Viridian = Green = Goblin. The panel takes place inside RedCloak’s study. RedCloak is a goblin, tied to the colour red. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3089 "2012-01-19T18:55:24Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I’m not getting the title of this one. Viridian? I know it’s a shade of green; so what? Is it a play off ‘A Study in Scarlet?’ Hmm. > > Tsukiko and Redcloak really don’t get on with one another, do they? I could see there being a direct confrontation at some climax point, and I don’t see it going Tsukiko’s way. Maybe it is because Redcloak is green? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3090 "2012-01-19T20:21:02Z")
A bit confused about the Viridian reference; both A Study in Scarlet, and A.S.i. Emerald were a reference to the blood of the splattered victim about the scene. The snuffed old guy guarding RC’s study is a Hobgoblin, and so wouldn’t it be appropriate instead to make a pun about Yellow? That said, I was about to say that this was further evidence that RC should have taken Tsukiko along on the raid and killed her, until I thought it through a little more. That Tsukiko thinks its O.K. to just waltz into RC’s study, kill his retainer, and ransack his stuff, tells me that she thinks she has X’s permission to do all of these things. Having X’s permission to do this and not care about RC’s reaction, would make me worry for my position if I were RC, divine Ritual half or not. RC is bright enough to infer all of this a lot faster than it took me to. Wonder what she was actually looking for? I think maybe the phylactery: does the timing work for her to hear about the killed goblin search party, move to their location, cast Speak with Dead or Create Undead, ask them what happened, put 2+2 together, and think that RC was hiding the phylactery in his study? Do X and her think RC’s dumb enough to write down his half of the ritual? Weird speculation: did the IFCC ever track down Haerta? I know they meant to, but did they? Or is she still floating around the Elven Lands, avoiding the fire down below? The reason I ask is that Tsukiko is still a little underpowered to stand by RC or X (or the MiTD), but _not_ if she gets possessed by the soul of an Epic-level Necromancer. That seems like something Tsukiko might actually enjoy, IMHO. If that happens, I can’t see it happening until the final Gate, and accordingly, Tsukiko might have some plot armor until then. Embarrassed to have missed the giant Pit Fiend/statue/headstone from the earlier arc. Even as a little kid, I think it’s still too big for the MiTD’s box/umbrella. Or for the critter in the tunnel. Certainly an iconic monster though, as I look at my old DM’s Guide… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3091 "2012-01-19T20:36:13Z")
I doubt she’s looking for the phylactery. Betting she’s actually looking for the second half of the ritual (but of course, the opportunity for misunderstandings is too great for a writer to pass up 😉 ). ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3092 "2012-01-19T21:36:24Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > A bit confused about the Viridian reference; both A Study in Scarlet, and A.S.i. Emerald were a reference to the blood of the splattered victim about the scene. The snuffed old guy guarding RC’s study is a Hobgoblin, and so wouldn’t it be appropriate instead to make a pun about Yellow? It’s _Redcloak’s_ study. _He_ is green. The pun is in its allusion to the murder scene of _A Study in Emerald_ (which does not occur in a study), and _A Study in Scarlet_ (which also does not occur in a study, IIRC). If it makes you feel any better, the titular reference in _A Study in Emerald_ is to the green _blood_ of the victim. Maybe hobgoblins bleed green. But if Rich was really going for anything more than a cheap pun, the dead hobgoblin should’ve scrawled something on the walls with his blood. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3093 "2012-01-19T21:59:59Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > That said, I was about to say that this was further evidence that RC should have taken Tsukiko along on the raid and killed her, until I thought it through a little more. That Tsukiko thinks its O.K. to just waltz into RC’s study, kill his retainer, and ransack his stuff, tells me that she thinks she has X’s permission to do all of these things. Having X’s permission to do this and not care about RC’s reaction, would make me worry for my position if I were RC, divine Ritual half or not. RC is bright enough to infer all of this a lot faster than it took me to. I think Tsukiko’s the one in over her head. As I’ve pointed out before, she always threatens to call in Xykon when she has a confrontation with Redcloak - it’s clear she doesn’t think she can handle Redcloak on her own. And relying on Xykon is a really stupid idea. If Tsukiko actually had to go to him, he might kill Redcloak. Or he might kill Tsukiko. Or he might tell them to fight each other to the death for his amusement. Or he might just ignore the whole situation. Redcloak is certainly aware of how random Xykon can be but Tsukiko hasn’t figured it out yet. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3094 "2012-01-19T22:01:19Z")
What experiment did Tsukiko refer to? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3095 "2012-01-20T04:15:54Z")
A nonexistant one. But she’s a wizard, and hence it’s plausible for her to do experiments, and a necromancer, and hence plausible for those experiments to involve killing people and/or their dead bodies. It’s enough of a bluff, given that Xykon’s not the type to ask for details. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3096 "2012-01-20T12:12:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A nonexistant one. But she’s a wizard, and hence it’s plausible for her to do experiments, and a necromancer, and hence plausible for those experiments to involve killing people and/or their dead bodies. It’s enough of a bluff, given that Xykon’s not the type to ask for details. I think the point is that Xykon is perfectly okay with mass murder for trivial reasons and is unlikely to care whether there’s an actual experiment or not, whereas Redcloak (as Tsukiko knows) feels responsible for the hobgoblins and doesn’t want them slaughtered for jollies. So Redcloak can’t complain to Xykon about Tsukiko killing a hundred of his guys, because Xykon is just as likely to turn around and kill a thousand for giggles and to piss off Redcloak. That said, I agree Tsukiko is playing a dangerous game here. Being a nuisance to Redcloak is one thing but if she becomes one to Xykon she’s toast. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3097 "2012-01-20T12:32:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That said, I agree Tsukiko is playing a dangerous game here. Being a nuisance to Redcloak is one thing but if she becomes one to Xykon she’s toast. And if she becomes enough of a one to Redcloak she’s _also_ probably toast. If he decides that it would be better if she were dead and some excuse manufactured for Xykon, then I think he’d stomp her. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3098 "2012-01-20T15:41:35Z")
I know that I can read the comics and figure it out for myself, but I’m lazy. Why did Xykon bring her on board in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3099 "2012-01-20T15:44:53Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I know that I can read the comics and figure it out for myself, but I’m lazy. > > Why did Xykon bring her on board in the first place? She was a prisoner of the paladins in Azure city who escaped and applied to join team evil mid battle. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3100 "2012-01-20T16:31:50Z")
As I’ve said before, Xykon isn’t as unaware as he acts. He has been doing some research into the gates (he’s read Serini’s diary, for example). So he may be aware that Redcloak hasn’t told him everything about the Gates and the Snarl. Opening the Gate requires a Mage and a Cleric to cast spells simultaneously. Tsukiko, as a Mystic Theurge, can cast clerical spells. So Xykon could conceivably use her as a replacement for Redcloak. This probably involves the half-ritual Xykon has her working on. That said, it’s been implied it takes a very high level Mage and Cleric to cast the spells and Tsukiko doesn’t appear to be anywhere near that level. This may be why Redcloak doesn’t see her as a threat for this particular reason. But Xykon may be working on a plan to level Tsukiko up. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3101 "2012-01-20T16:38:53Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I know that I can read the comics and figure it out for myself, but I’m lazy. > > Why did Xykon bring her on board in the first place? > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > She was a prisoner of the paladins in Azure city who escaped and applied to join team evil mid battle. I found the actual comic where it happened; [#446, “Hell of a Job”](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=154) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=156)