# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 156
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3102 "2012-01-20T16:41:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I found the actual comic where it happened; [#446, “Hell of a Job”](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html). Thanks, everybody! Edit: _snicker_ “Bio-philiac” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3103 "2012-01-20T16:45:46Z")
I noticed that Redcloaks spellhand is wreathed in red when he casts his spells, and Xykon (in the linked panels in #446) had grey. Tsukiko’s has both light and dark blue. I assume that’s a clue to the “school” or type of magic being used? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3104 "2012-01-20T16:59:18Z")
Magic generally seems color coded according to the individual. Tsukiko probably has two colors (and two eye colors) to match her mix of clerical and mage spells. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3105 "2012-01-20T17:05:35Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > She was a prisoner of the paladins in Azure city who escaped and applied to join team evil mid battle. And [looking back](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html) I see this isn’t quite true. Several prisoners were offered a 5 year reduction in sentence if they fought for the city. So they _released_ her to fight, then she switched sides. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3106 "2012-01-20T18:33:06Z")
I’m pretty sure she’s looking for the other half of the ritual. Of course, there’s no reason Redcloak would have written it down in the first place, is there? He had the knowledge beamed into him when he put on the Crimson Mantle, and there’s no reason he would share. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3107 "2012-01-20T18:39:51Z")
So, did Tsukiko brazenly tip her hand as being a competitor of Redcloak, or was there already earlier warning signs? It seems to me that breaking into the study while he’s away, and acting relatively nonchalant about it when he catches her in the act was a pretty dumb move on her part. (When caught, bluff your way out with a threat?) If there was no clear indication before that she views herself as a competitor with Redcloak, it’s clear now. Redcloak, of course, is playing it cool. Of course, evil organisations routinely backstab each other up the ladder of power, like true Sith! ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3108 "2012-01-20T18:58:31Z")
So I’m confused about this half-a-ritual. Have we heard anything about it save [this one strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3109 "2012-01-20T19:06:09Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So I’m confused about this half-a-ritual. Have we heard anything about it save [this one strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)? I believe Start of Darkness mentioned it, but I don’t have the book handy. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3110 "2012-01-20T19:28:18Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So I’m confused about this half-a-ritual. Have we heard anything about it save [this one strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)? Redcloak told Xykon the ritual will let him control the gates. The ritual needs one high-level arcane caster and one high-level divine caster. (Read _Start of Darkness_ if you can). Tsukiko can do both arcane and divine magic, so there’s some speculation Xykon’s going to try to replace Reddy with Tsukiko, or at least have her as a back-up caster. Or something. Not that it would help anyway, since Redcloak lied. The spell only lets someone be able to shift the gates to another plain. Come to think of it… If Tsukiko and/or Xykon did the spell without RC, without knowing exactly how it worked, would control of the gates go to the Dark One anyway? Or is the spell that you can give the power to anyone you choose? How difficult is it to reverse-engineer a spell and figure out exactly what it does? Is that what Tsukiko was doing in #700 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3111 "2012-01-20T19:53:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And if she becomes enough of a one to Redcloak she’s _also_ probably toast. If he decides that it would be better if she were dead and some excuse manufactured for Xykon, then I think he’d stomp her. Hell, if he hadn’t burned a bunch of high-level spell slots just before that comic, she might be toast _now_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3112 "2012-01-20T20:39:47Z")
I think Redcloak is foregoing a move against Tsukiko because he’s got a bigger plan going on. His goal is to win a place for the goblins. Eliminating Tsukiko might provoke Xykon into action so Redcloak tolerates Tsukiko. Tsukiko, as I’ve said, is mostly clueless. She apparently doesn’t see the danger of putting herself in the middle of a conflict between two much more powerful beings, neither of whom has any concern about her survival. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3113 "2012-01-20T21:14:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And if she becomes enough of a one to Redcloak she’s _also_ probably toast. If he decides that it would be better if she were dead and some excuse manufactured for Xykon, then I think he’d stomp her. The catch is that if Xykon has plans for her as a backup/replacement for Redcloak, he’s going to be pissed enough to not listen to excuses – even if he believes Redcloak’s story (not a given; he’s not as dumb as he seems), he might take it out on him for failing to keep her from getting killed and messing up his plan. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3114 "2012-01-20T22:23:19Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > So, did Tsukiko brazenly tip her hand as being a competitor of Redcloak, or was there already earlier warning signs? Not so much a competitor, but [they’re definitely not friends](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html). ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3115 "2012-01-20T22:41:23Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Not so much a competitor, but [they’re definitely not friends](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html). “I ordered my Super-Sized Impotence Special to go!” See? That’s the problem with reading 800 strips in three work days. They all blur together… ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3116 "2012-01-20T23:00:22Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > Seventeenth level \*\*character \*\*but ninth level cleric **spells**. DND uses level to mean a few different things. As pointed out [early on](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html). ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3117 "2012-01-20T23:32:28Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > As pointed out [early on](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html). Yep. It’s been a while since I have read the older stuff. Seems time to go back and read all of the books! Thanks! vislor ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3118 "2012-01-20T23:40:44Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > As pointed out [early on](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html). And a bit later: > [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > So, you want to go up a level? > [@Yllaria](#): > > Way back to [12.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html) That’s almost time travel. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3119 "2012-01-21T03:18:03Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Not so much a competitor, but [they’re definitely not friends](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html). Hey, [he started it](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0457.html). And in keeping with my point about not relying on Xykon, [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html) was his response when Tsukiko complained about Redcloak. That should have tipped her off. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3120 "2012-01-21T06:36:15Z")
Redcloak’s speeches and some of his perspective seems more and more like Roy’s. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3121 "2012-01-21T14:37:56Z")
You know, I never noticed before but Haley’s got a back tattoo. [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=155) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=157)