# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 158
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3142 "2012-01-22T17:23:11Z")
Would it be possible for RedCloak to bluff that whatever Xykon is expecting the ritual to do is in the divine half? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3143 "2012-01-22T17:37:57Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Would it be possible for RedCloak to bluff that whatever Xykon is expecting the ritual to do is in the divine half? No. Tsukiko won’t trust anything he says, and as soon as Xykon finds out the game is up. The lich may not be that detail-oriented, but he’s surprisingly intuitive, especially when it comes to his chief minion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3144 "2012-01-22T20:48:13Z")
First of all, what Tsukiko has discovered is perfectly consistent with what Redcloak has already said he knows about the ritual. Second, he’s had access to the entire ritual for a lot longer than Tsukiko has, and he’s an intelligent and intellectually-curious person: I’m sure he’s studied it in just as much depth, or likely much greater depth, than she has. So I find it quite implausible that she’s found something that he hasn’t. And Burlew has said that the prequel books will never be necessary to follow the main comic. Material from them will inevitably show up and be important in the main comic, but when it does, it’ll be introduced sufficiently. That said, though, even though it’s not _essential_, Start of Darkness at least is an excellent read, and well worth buying (On the Origin of PCs less so; that one is mostly just light humor of the joke-a-day style that predominated at the start of the strip). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3145 "2012-01-22T21:37:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > First of all, what Tsukiko has discovered is perfectly consistent with what Redcloak has already said he knows about the ritual. Second, he’s had access to the entire ritual for a lot longer than Tsukiko has, and he’s an intelligent and intellectually-curious person: I’m sure he’s studied it in just as much depth, or likely much greater depth, than she has. So I find it quite implausible that she’s found something that he hasn’t. But she found it on the arcane half of the ritual, which Redcloak wouldn’t be able to grok. Clerics have rubbish skill points, not like they can waste many on Knowledge(Arcana) or Knowledge(Planes) even if they’re technically class skills. IF the Dark One was a deceiving prick and IF he’d devised a ritual to do something while telling his priests it’d do another, that’s exactly where he’d hide the small print - clerics rarely multiclass into wizards, especially when they’re High Priests for their entire race :p. I’d also dispute the assertion that Redcloak is all that smart. He’s not a complete moron, but he’s still pretty dim all things considered - or at least a large majority of his reasonings and decisions have led either to disasters, or to the exact opposite of what he was trying to achieve. He only \*appears \*particularly brightbecause he’s usually the straight man to a room that contains Xykon, Tsukiko and the Monster in the Dark. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3146 "2012-01-22T22:36:10Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > It’s red; is that a tattoo or a wound? It’s a tattoo. In panel 9 of [the Haley-and-Elan New Year’s Eve dinner](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html) strip, Haley’s word balloons translate as “I cheat at solitaire. I have a tattoo you’ve never seen. I kissed a girl once. OK, OK, more than once!” ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3147 "2012-01-22T22:38:33Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I believe it says ‘I \<3 gold,’ but I’m too lazy to search for the strip in which we can see it more clearly than that one. In **War and XPs** you can see it a bit better. It’s a heart with an arrow through it. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3148 "2012-01-22T22:51:44Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > It’s a tattoo. In panel 9 of [the Haley-and-Elan New Year’s Eve dinner](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html) strip, Haley’s word balloons translate as “I cheat at solitaire. I have a tattoo you’ve never seen. I kissed a girl once. OK, OK, more than once!” Haley’s gibberish word balloons are translatable? Is there some substitution table? (And if so, I’m sure someone has already transcribed her months of dialog and put them up somewhere, right?). And by the way, a question for the group: what specifically is “the Crimson Mantle” ? Red Cloak’s cloak? Some other red/crimson thing he wears? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3149 "2012-01-22T23:08:10Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Haley’s gibberish word balloons are translatable? Is there some substitution table? (And if so, I’m sure someone has already transcribed her months of dialog and put them up somewhere, right?). > And by the way, a question for the group: what specifically is “the Crimson Mantle” ? Red Cloak’s cloak? Some other red/crimson thing he wears? If you buy “War and XPs”, all of her dialogue is translated. But I’m sure it’s somewhere on the internet as well. Edit: The Crimson Mantle is indeed the cloak, but the cloak is also a signifier for his role as the Dark One’s tool for bringing about goblin justice. It also confers powers, allowing him to live unnaturally long and cast spells more powerfully. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3150 "2012-01-22T23:10:25Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Haley’s gibberish word balloons are translatable? Is there some substitution table? (And if so, I’m sure someone has already transcribed her months of dialog and put them up somewhere, right?). > > Yep, each strip is a new simple substitution cipher. The books contain all the translations, or you can see them in the “What Haley Said” compilation thread on the Giant in the Playground forums. The thread is [here](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4909). > And by the way, a question for the group: what specifically is “the Crimson Mantle” ? Red Cloak’s cloak? Some other red/crimson thing he wears? It’s the red cloak that he wears. In **Start of Darkness** we find out that it is an artifact created by the goblins’ god, the Dark One, that keeps the wearer from aging, protects against disease, and imprints knowledge of the Plan and the ritual necessary to take control of one of the Snarl-guarding gates. It’s definitely worth getting **Start of Darkness** at the very least; it explains a lot about the background of the villains. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3151 "2012-01-22T23:11:31Z")
> [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > If you buy “War and XPs”, all of her dialogue is translated. But I’m sure it’s somewhere on the internet as well. … and **No Cure for the Paladin Blues** , of course. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3152 "2012-01-22T23:19:34Z")
> [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > If you buy “War and XPs”, all of her dialogue is translated. But I’m sure it’s somewhere on the internet as well. Huh, I should just googled. [Here’s the translations.](http://www.mrphlip.com/haley.php). I’m really surprised I never knew the dialog was translatable; the characters in the strip explicitly state it’s not a language at all. They couldn’t translate it using magic, so why could we? (rhetorical) ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3153 "2012-01-22T23:32:49Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Haley’s gibberish word balloons are translatable? Is there some substitution table? (And if so, I’m sure someone has already transcribed her months of dialog and put them up somewhere, right?). > And by the way, a question for the group: what specifically is “the Crimson Mantle” ? Red Cloak’s cloak? Some other red/crimson thing he wears? Here you go, from the OotS forum: [http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4909](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4909) And the Crimson Mantle is indeed Redcloak’s cloak. It is the symbol of the high priest of the Dark One and his direct connection to the god. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3154 "2012-01-23T00:57:15Z")
> [@](#): > > And Burlew has said that the prequel books will never be necessary to follow the main comic. Material from them will inevitably show up and be important in the main comic, but when it does, it’ll be introduced sufficiently. That said, though, even though it’s not _essential_, Start of Darkness at least is an excellent read, and well worth buying (On the Origin of PCs less so; that one is mostly just light humor of the joke-a-day style that predominated at the start of the strip).[URL=“[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=14694668](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=14694668)”] If you enjoy the strip, you owe it to yourself to pick up SoD. Really. I’ve always considered Xykon and Belkar to be the best characters in the strip. And it’s interesting to see Xykon with flesh. And hair. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3155 "2012-01-23T01:18:10Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Huh, I should just googled. [Here’s the translations.](http://www.mrphlip.com/haley.php). I’m really surprised I never knew the dialog was translatable; the characters in the strip explicitly state it’s not a language at all. They couldn’t translate it using magic, so why could we? (rhetorical) Burlew has said if he had it to do over again, he’d have just used random letters. He said once readers realized Haley’s lines could be translated, they felt they were important secret messages when they were actually just throwaway jokes at most. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3156 "2012-01-23T11:44:44Z")
New strip is up, and [isn’t it nice when the author obligingly resolves all the speculation promptly and completely](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3157 "2012-01-23T11:55:04Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > New strip is up, and [isn’t it nice when the author obligingly resolves all the speculation promptly and completely](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html)? Woah. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3158 "2012-01-23T12:02:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Burlew has said if he had it to do over again, he’d have just used random letters. He said once readers realized Haley’s lines could be translated, they felt they were important secret messages when they were actually just throwaway jokes at most. Hey, at least it gave all those fertile minds out there something to do, and it’s better than some things that could have been done. > [@Ralphie](#): > > A commercial!? Son of a bitch! ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3159 "2012-01-23T12:08:32Z")
Yow, so that is just — yow. Buh-bye. Story observation: with the backstory of the Snarl and the Gates and the Dark One’s Plan for both laid out so plainly, it would appear that the main plot is about to come back into focus. There are two Gates left, and we know from the Oracle that Xykon will be close to Girard’s Gate next. The Order of the Stick is hunting for that Gate right now. Xykon has been contacted with the news that his soul-hidey-place has been found, and doesn’t yet know that it’s been ‘lost’ again. Is Redcloak going to produce it as a way of distracting Xykon from everything that’s just happened and getting him out of the city as quickly as possible, or continue to conceal it? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3160 "2012-01-23T12:36:31Z")
Great strip. When Redcloak teaches a lesson (like “Undead aren’t people”), he doesn’t do things by halves. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3161 "2012-01-23T13:33:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > New strip is up, and [isn’t it nice when the author obligingly resolves all the speculation promptly and completely](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html)? Yowser! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=157) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=159)