# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 166
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3302 "2012-01-25T08:54:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think the mirror is just a mirror. It’s there because Rich wanted Redcloak to see his reflection after losing his eye (those who have read _Start of Darkness_ understand why Rich wanted this). But now that it’s established as part of the scenery in Redcloak’s study, it shows up in the background of any scene set in the study. This is what I think as well. This is Redcloak’s private study and he’s a powerful cleric; Tsukiko mentioned the wards protecting it, which she could only get past with the magic key she took from the hobgoblin she killed. Redcloak tends to be careful to the point of obsession. I can’t believe he would leave any stone unturned in protecting his privacy, particularly considering his deception with Xykon. That hobgoblin – any chance of Redcloak raising him? Or would he reluctantly decide, as with his spy in the Resistance, that it’s vital that there be no witnesses to any of this? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3303 "2012-01-25T12:09:34Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > That hobgoblin – any chance of Redcloak raising him? Or would he reluctantly decide, as with his spy in the Resistance, that it’s vital that there be no witnesses to any of this? Very little chance. Raise Dead spells require a very expensive diamond as a component, which is destroyed. Xykon controls the funds, and won’t pay to raise a janitor. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3304 "2012-01-25T12:19:13Z")
Right. Because _that’s_ what keeps Xykon’s interest - accounting. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3305 "2012-01-25T16:34:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, there’s always killing things. That always cheers him up. He could do it in an ongoing capacity, wandering you could say… 😛 But personally hunting down and extracting vengeance on every last goblinoid out of spite seems more like his style. But he’s admitted killing people just doesn’t have the thrill it once did. After the first few thousand murders, it gets to be just part of the routine. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3306 "2012-01-25T18:36:59Z")
> [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > I wonder will Xkyon try to blackmail the Dark One if he do uncover Redcloak’s plans. Blackmail isn’t really Xykon’s style, and the Dark One is a god. I don’t see this happening or working out well. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Very little chance. Raise Dead spells require a very expensive diamond as a component, which is destroyed. Xykon controls the funds, and won’t pay to raise a janitor. Isn’t that just the spell you need if the body’s not fresh? The hobgoblin was freshly killed, so a much lower-level spell should work here. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3307 "2012-01-25T18:52:05Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Isn’t that just the spell you need if the body’s not fresh? No. _Raise Dead_ is the cheapest of the three (5,000 gp). The others are more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3308 "2012-01-25T18:52:38Z")
Raise Dead is the cheapest and lowest-level spell, and should work fine here. Resurrection is higher level and more expensive, but doesn’t require the body to be intact, just a piece of the remains, and can work after a longer time. True Resurrection is the highest-level and most expensive, but doesn’t even need any remains, and can work literally centuries later, and also doesn’t make the raised character lose a level. And Redcloak has plenty of resources available on his own to raise this guy if he wants. Consider: The hobgoblin spy, he apologized that he couldn’t raise him because he had to keep the secret. He didn’t say anything about not being able to afford it. This implies that he _would_ have raised him if secrecy weren’t paramount. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3309 "2012-01-25T18:55:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Right. Because _that’s_ what keeps Xykon’s interest - accounting. Plus, Redcloak’s at least 17th level. 5,000 gp is pocket change to most 17th level characters, even if they don’t have the resources of their own private metropolis to draw on. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3310 "2012-01-25T20:04:09Z")
FWIW, Xykon doesn’t even seem to mind raising (hob)goblins with class levels (or importance). [Cite](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html). ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3311 "2012-01-25T20:36:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > FWIW, Xykon doesn’t even seem to mind raising (hob)goblins with class levels (or importance). [Cite](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html). Yeah, we know Jirix has been raised at least twice now. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3312 "2012-01-25T20:40:52Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Xykon can’t scry his own phylactery, but he _can_ scry the elves who supposedly took it, or their HQ. Aren’t they in the Cloister’s AoE? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3313 "2012-01-25T20:43:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The thing is Xykon has also spent thirty years pursuing the Gates. Unlike Redcloak, he’s been pursuing them for mistken reasons. But suppose he finds out that Redcloak lied to him and the Snarl can’t be controlled. Sure, he can kill Redcloak and a few million goblins. > > But then what? Without the quest for the power of the Gates, what will Xykon do? Finding out about the hoax will be almost as bad for Xykon as it would be for Redcloak. I wondered if perhaps that was why he was having Tsukiko research the spell in the first place – that maybe he knew something was amiss and wanted to make some changes in secret to give control to himself instead of the Dark One. Probably not, though… ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3314 "2012-01-25T20:52:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Aren’t they in the Cloister’s AoE? Yeah, if Xykon [wouldn’t be able to scry on O-Chul for months after his escape](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html) because he’s been renewing the Cloister spell every few weeks, he definitely wouldn’t be able to find those elves either. Come to think of it, the Cloister spell must have been pretty lucky for the Resistance, I guess, or Team Evil could have just [pulled a “Miko” scam](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html) on them right at the start – score a few hairs from one of the dead hobgoblins overseers at wherever the first Resistance liberation site happens to be (well, the first Resistance liberation that happens after Team Evil becomes aware that the Resistance exists, I guess), tell Teevo to record that person for a while, and bam, they know exactly where the Resistance HQ is from almost the very beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3315 "2012-01-25T20:58:32Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Yeah, if Xykon [wouldn’t be able to scry on O-Chul for months after his escape](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html) because he’s been renewing the Cloister spell every few weeks, he definitely wouldn’t be able to find those elves either Depends how far out of the city the Resistance’s lair used to be. Considering Redcloak feels that his secret will remain safe even after crashing an entire mountain, I’d say it’s at least beyond the horizon. Then again IIRC it’s the same lair Haley was holed up in, and she certainly was in Cloister range, so that point is possibly moot. I guess it also depends on how long Xykon’s been away. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3316 "2012-01-25T21:30:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Considering Redcloak feels that his secret will remain safe even after crashing an entire mountain, I’d say it’s at least beyond the horizon. The secret isn’t that he crushed the resistance-- The secret is that he took the phylactery back with him. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3317 "2012-01-25T21:42:33Z")
Same thing, since Xykon already knows his phylactery has been found. Unless Redcloak already has a fake phylactery ready for when Xykon teleports in any second now, he’ll either have to hand over the real one (which would defeat the purpose of all his skullduggery so far), or tell the boss the Resistance hijacked it, in which case Xykon finding out about a crushed mountain lair wouldn’t add up. Dead hobgoblin possibly was a forger bringing a fake phylactery (he’s dressed like a smith or jeweler), but then again how could he have forged something without an original to copy ? I suppose Red could always say the Resistance got it, wait for his fake, then break over to Xykon that he’s brought a mountain down on the elves’ heads and BTW here’s Precious ; but that still seems kind of risky to me considering Xykon will probably want to be in on the search for the Resistance and/or its crushing. Also suspicious - why would RC have done it himself without backup if he didn’t have anything to hide ? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3318 "2012-01-25T21:47:02Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Unless Redcloak already has a fake phylactery ready for when Xykon teleports in any second now, he’ll either have to hand over the real one (which would defeat the purpose of all his skullduggery so far), or tell the boss the Resistance hijacked it, in which case Xykon finding out about a crushed mountain lair wouldn’t add up. Sure it would. Didn’t one member of the Resistance escape? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3319 "2012-01-25T21:57:45Z")
Sorry for interrupting the flow, but I have another D&D-based question, and it’s about [Strip 825](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0825.html). Obviously, we’ve seen Redcloak use “Word of Recall” several times to tell-a-pork himself back to the hallway outside his study in the Team Evil tower. But how did he get to the Resistance HQ in the first place? He must have gotten there pretty fast to have killed everyone there and set up that horrific display for the Resistance leadership got back from retrieving the phylactery. I assumed he teleported somehow, but is that even possible? Could one of his summoned creatures / planar allies / whatever have teleported him there? Could the polymorphed goblin traitor have set up some kind of teleport receiving doodad for him to jump to “Word of Recall”-style? Or must he have just flown there? (Come to think of it, can Redcloak cast any kind of flying spell? We’ve never seen him fly, have we?) Or maybe he rode one of his [summoned giant fiendish mammoth creatures](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html)? That would be quite a sight, a goblin with an eyepatch riding a giant pink evil mammoth away from Tower Evil, through the city, and over to the mountainous area… and since he obviously wanted to keep this completely hush-hush, that probably means he didn’t do THAT. In fact, the fact that he didn’t want ANYBODY else to know what he was up to strongly implies that he somehow arrived magically right in Resistance HQ, doesn’t it? But how could he have managed that? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3320 "2012-01-25T22:00:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Sure it would. Didn’t one member of the Resistance escape? Ha. Maybe that’s specifically why he earthquake’d the place into oblivion. “They brought the mountain down on themselves and committed mass suicide just to keep the phylactery away from you, Lord Xykon. But don’t worry, my round-the-clock teams of hobgoblins won’t stop digging until we find it! Unless one of them somehow slipped out the back first.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3321 "2012-01-25T22:04:33Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > That would be quite a sight, a goblin with an eyepatch riding a giant pink evil mammoth away from Tower Evil, through the city, and over to the mountainous area… and since he obviously wanted to keep this completely hush-hush, that probably means he didn’t do THAT. > > In fact, the fact that he didn’t want ANYBODY else to know what he was up to strongly implies that he somehow arrived magically right in Resistance HQ, doesn’t it? But how could he have managed that? Wind Walk would let him – and a bunch of allies – fly there while looking like misty white translucent clouds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=165) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=167)