# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 168
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3342 "2012-01-26T13:01:11Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I dunno, I think that was just to illustrate that Redcloak was casting lots of spells on the phylactery to duplicate the spells on the first one, without having to go into detail on what every single one was. Of course, I could be wrong. That’s how I read it - it’s shorthand for “Redcloak casts a lot of powerful spells on the fake in between panels”. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3343 "2012-01-26T15:33:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Three possibilities, from least to greatest likelihood: > > 1. Who would’ve put arcane enchantments on the fake–Xykon? Of course not: Xykon doesn’t use his precious sorcerer slots for item enchantments, he uses them for funny ways to kill people. I don’t recall seeing him read too many scrolls, either. He has too much disdain for wizards to bother. This seems the likeliest possibility to me. [This strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html) has X saying, “It has the best anti-detection spells we know on it…” I took that to mean that X had a hand in the wards, etc… Of course, X isn’t the most knowledgeable when it comes to magic (Spellcraft ranks needed to cast Epic spells aside.), so who knows? Tsukiko probably would have had the magical chops to be able to guess, but not any more… I would have guessed that the smith would have needed the original in order to make a suitable fake, but I guess not. (From the OOTS forum) Other differences between the fake and the real one: no Explosive Runes damage/residue (and RC wouldn’t know to add them), no gunk from sitting in a sewer for who knows how many months, no Permanency spells to make RC’s wards last. My own thought as to why RC might not want to destroy the original right away: I forget if it was **Miller** or **Kobal** or someone else in this thread, but the thought was that a lich may have only one phylactery at a time. Could then, the original be used as a “blocker” to prevent X from making another one, should he ever learn that his “new” one is a fake? Give the original to, e.g., Jirix, with instructions to throw the phylactery into the Snarl if: he gets a Sending from RC to do so OR he doesn’t get a periodic Sending from RC indicating everything’s still cool. I do wonder if RC feels X is outliving his usefulness. Just how powerful does the arcane caster have to be in order to perform the Ritual? I get that RC needs a certain amount of horsepower in order to get to a Gate and defeat its guardians, but does the very real threat that X poses to Gobbotopia outweigh that? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3344 "2012-01-26T16:58:21Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > no Permanency spells to make RC’s wards last. I was thinking that would be the crux issue (the lack of scorch marks from V’s parting Runes could be explained by the various anti-damage spells on it) but then I figured, what’s Xykon going to do with the phylactery, if not entrust it right back to Redcloak ? He probably won’t just tuck it in his robes because that would defeat the whole purpose of having a failsafe unlife system in the first place - anyone who can destroy him can be assumed to be able to smash the bauble too. He can’t give it to Tsukiko for safekeeping because she’s been given to various digestive tracts for safekeeping. He won’t entrust it to another gobbo because they suck. And he can’t really leave in storage someplace out of the way, because then someone could swipe it without his immediate knowledge (and besides, if that was his plan he could have just left it in the sewers). Plus if he puts it in storage, then the lack of Permanency doesn’t matter. That leaves Redcloak ; and the MitD who wouldn’t know an enchantment from a chocolate pudding. So Redcloak only really needs to convince Xykon it’s the real thing _right now_, doesn’t he ? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3345 "2012-01-26T17:37:13Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > [This strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html) has X saying, “It has the best anti-detection spells we know on it…” I took that to mean that X had a hand in the wards, etc… Of course, X isn’t the most knowledgeable when it comes to magic (Spellcraft ranks needed to cast Epic spells aside.), so who knows? It doesn’t need the best. It just has to be better than Xykon’s detection spells. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3346 "2012-01-26T17:41:28Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And he can’t really leave in storage someplace out of the way, because then someone could swipe it without his immediate knowledge (and besides, if that was his plan he could have just left it in the sewers). Plus if he puts it in storage, then the lack of Permanency doesn’t matter. Dumb question: Can he stick it in a box, seal the box with wards, and cast some kind of alarm system on the box/wards? Insta teleport back to the box if the alarm goes off. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3347 "2012-01-26T17:53:24Z")
Assuming Redcloak is handing over the (fake) phylactery, I guess they’ll be [on the move soon](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html): > [@Xykon](#): > > I want you all to be ready to teleport out of here two rounds after we find my phylactery, whether that takes days or months. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3348 "2012-01-26T18:03:58Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Dumb question: Can he stick it in a box, seal the box with wards, and cast some kind of alarm system on the box/wards? > > Insta teleport back to the box if the alarm goes off. Sure, there are a gazillion spells to do that, but they all have something in common: they can be dispelled. So they work against mundane burglars or someone silly (like SuperSayan V teleporting in blind right in Xykon’s throne room), but not against someone with a plan. Just like real locks and alarms, really. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3349 "2012-01-26T18:06:37Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And he can’t really leave in storage someplace out of the way, because then someone could swipe it without his immediate knowledge (and besides, if that was his plan he could have just left it in the sewers). The problem with leaving it in the sewers is, what if it got eaten by a sea serpent, for instance. > **[662 The Price is Right - Giant in the Playground Games](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html)** He could put it into storage somewhere, just as long as it’s a safe place to regenerate. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3350 "2012-01-26T18:15:26Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > It doesn’t need the best. It just has to be better than Xykon’s detection spells. And [even Tsukiko](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html) was willing to admit that Xykon isn’t great at divination. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3351 "2012-01-26T18:16:41Z")
So, how many strips will it be before Tsukiko reappears? She was sufficiently powerful to become a lich, and we never did see her actually die. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3352 "2012-01-26T18:32:30Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > So, how many strips will it be before Tsukiko reappears? She was sufficiently powerful to become a lich, and we never did see her actually die. Becoming a lich isn’t something you can do at a moment’s notice. You have to craft yourself a phylactery, for starters. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3353 "2012-01-26T18:33:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > So, how many strips will it be before Tsukiko reappears? She was sufficiently powerful to become a lich, and we never did see her actually die. I’m pretty sure we didn’t see her die because it was a pretty gruesome death, the kind that usually happens off-camera even in movies. But I wouldn’t put it past Burlew to invoke that trope, certainly. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3354 "2012-01-26T18:36:13Z")
We heard numerous “chomps.” She’s zombie chow. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3355 "2012-01-26T18:37:35Z")
A perhaps slightly off-topic post, but I’m not entirely familiar with D&D; since Xykon has a paralyzing touch how come Jirix isn’t paralyzed (or dead) as a result of being gripped like that? Is this one of the mechanics coming secondary to dramatics or is there another explanation? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3356 "2012-01-26T18:41:34Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > A perhaps slightly off-topic post, but I’m not entirely familiar with D&D; since Xykon has a paralyzing touch how come Jirix isn’t paralyzed (or dead) as a result of being gripped like that? Is this one of the mechanics coming secondary to dramatics or is there another explanation? If it is an “at will” supernatural ability, or a cast spell, he doesn’t necessarilly paralyze automatically. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3357 "2012-01-26T19:30:45Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > We heard numerous “chomps.” She’s zombie chow. Well, undeads don’t \*have \*to be corporeal - she could always come or be brought back as a ghost or apparition or spirit of some kind. That being said, I don’t really see it happening in a meaningful way even if the rules of the world allow it. From a narrative standpoint and looking back, as I see it her role was threefold: - Be the main antagonist for Haley’s guerilla adventure (Xykon and RC are way above her paygrade, nameless goblins unsatisfying) - Serve as the plot exposition fairy for stuff that was in _Start of Darkness_, would have been awkward to bring up otherwise via Xykon/Redcloak/MitD interactions, but is required to keep up with the main plot (the Plan, the ritual, RC’s duplicity) - Lampshade hanger extraordinaire (“This is why we can’t scry O-Chul”, “This is why Xykon can’t just kill himself to find his phylactery”) But she wasn’t really a fan-favourite character, and her coming back wouldn’t really move things along. She could still serve to reveal RC’s machinations to Xykon if nothing else, but then again Xykon would be made to look \*way \*more badass if he just sprang the revelation on RC at a crucial point, having figured it out by himself long ago (just like he did at the end of _SoD_). ETA: Oh, and yes, \*\*mlees \*\*has it right, a lich’s Paralyzing Touch is a voluntary attack, not a physical property ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3358 "2012-01-26T19:34:25Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, undeads don’t \*have \*to be corporeal - she could always come or be brought back as a ghost or apparition or spirit of some kind. Does a Banshee have to be a former elf? ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3359 "2012-01-26T20:03:34Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Does a Banshee have to be a former elf? I believe that’s only true in the Warcraft universe. ETA: [Nope, it seems that I am wrong](http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/banshee). ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3360 "2012-01-26T20:27:53Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > ETA: Oh, and yes, \*\*mlees \*\*has it right, a lich’s Paralyzing Touch is a voluntary attack, not a physical property So how come Xykon accidentally paralyzed Right-Eye in SoD? He didn’t even know what he did- Redcloak’s next words were something like “Now let’s discuss your paralyzing touch.” ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3361 "2012-01-26T20:45:22Z")
> [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > ETA: [Nope, it seems that I am wrong](http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/banshee). That’s just an example description, it doesn’t mean all banshees are elves, any more than an [animated object](http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/animated-object) has to be a cage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=167) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=169)