# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 177
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3522 "2012-02-14T20:01:11Z")
No wonder he’s named Yuk-Yuk. That was pretty much my reaction to this strip. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3523 "2012-02-14T21:02:49Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > /off-topic, & dumb question: > > I just used the kickstarter (I had to create a login), and selected the $45 pledge. I was shunted to amazon dot com, and provided a credit card number when prompted. I got a confirmation email from both amazon and the kickstarter page. > > Do they use the shipping address off amazon’s records? Because I never got prompted for a mailing address. Definitely not a dumb question. From the Kickstarter help page: > [@](#): > > **As a backer, how will project creators get my info (mailing address, T-shirt size, etc.) to deliver rewards?** > > Project creators will send you an email survey to request any info they need to deliver you and your fellow backers’ rewards, such as your mailing address or other details. > > Surveys are sent only after a project has been successfully funded. Some creators send surveys immediately, others wait until they’re ready to deliver rewards. If you think you might have missed a survey email, please log in to your Kickstarter account to check — you’ll see a notification at the top of the site for any missed surveys. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3524 "2012-02-14T21:19:44Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Definitely not a dumb question. From the Kickstarter help page: Ah. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3525 "2012-02-15T17:02:55Z")
I obviously missed something again. Why was V on the Elemental Plane of Ranch dressing? Why does Mr. Skruffy dislike the kobold so? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3526 "2012-02-15T17:16:15Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I obviously missed something again. > > Why was V on the Elemental Plane of Ranch dressing? > > Why does Mr. Skruffy dislike the kobold so? [Zz’drti (V’s opposite) Plane Shifted](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html) V and Yukyuk during their duel. Z used coordinates provided by Qaar, who told Z that they were to the DemiPlane of Extremely Painful Torture. Qaar fibbed. Yukyuk [shot the cat, for really no reason](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html), while looking for V. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3527 "2012-02-15T17:16:20Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I obviously missed something again. > > Why was V on the Elemental Plane of Ranch dressing? Zz’dtri Plane Shifted V there at [the end of their fight.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html) > [@](#): > > Why does Mr. Skruffy dislike the kobold so? Yukyuk [shot him and sicced Sir Scraggly on him.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html) (Mr. Scruffy has already [dealt with Sir Scraggly](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0803.html).) ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3528 "2012-02-15T17:47:04Z")
Heh. Thanks, guys! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3529 "2012-02-15T19:00:55Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > ‘It’s more fun to humiliate him, which I can’t do if he’s dead’ might qualify as better impulse control, but I’m not sure I’d call it empathy. It reminds me of [the strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html) with Belkar’s two evil consciences arguing instant gratification versus long-term self-interest. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3530 "2012-02-15T19:18:36Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > [Zz’drti (V’s opposite) Plane Shifted](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html) V and Yukyuk during their duel. Z used coordinates provided by Qaar, who told Z that they were to the DemiPlane of Extremely Painful Torture. Qaar fibbed. . . That reminds me that I have no idea what Qaar and the Big Three are up to, re V. > [@Balance](#): > > . . . Yukyuk [shot him and sicced Sir Scraggly on him.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html) (Mr. Scruffy has already [dealt with Sir Scraggly](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0803.html).) And that reminds me that I have no idea where the belt of giant strength went to. I wonder if/when it’s going to show up again. Also, did Haley get her loot back, in general? Or was it sitting out when Tarquin came through, and was therefor confiscated. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3531 "2012-02-15T20:08:10Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > And that reminds me that I have no idea where the belt of giant strength went to. I wonder if/when it’s going to show up again. Roy got it back in [this strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0809.html). If you look carefully, it’s on the ground, and he dons it. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3532 "2012-02-15T21:36:44Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Roy got it back in [this strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0809.html). If you look carefully, it’s on the ground, and he dons it. Thanks, I totally missed that. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3533 "2012-02-15T22:20:08Z")
D&D question: Why give Roy the belt of giant strength? Presumadely, he already has a STR score from 16 to 18… Give it to Elan or Belkar, who probably have average strength scores. They’ll do more damage, right? That is to say, they’ll get a bigger overall increase to damge than Roy would… ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3534 "2012-02-15T22:22:22Z")
Nevermind. Roy probably has feats based on his STR score, while Belkar and Elan have feats based on DEX or CHA, right? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3535 "2012-02-15T22:41:36Z")
Mainly it’s that Roy wields a two-handed weapon. WHen wielding a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon in two hands, the bonus damage from Strength is multiplied by 1½; in other words Roy gets a +4 or +5 increase to damage per blow with the Belt, as well as a +3 bonus to hit. (I’m assuming a belt +6 because, at their level, that’s what the bonus to a primary attribute should be.) Belkar would actually be the next best candidate; he wields two weapons (being a ranger). This means he gets a +3 damage bonus with his on-hand weapon and +1 or +2 for his off-hand weapon. Belkar _also_ gets a larger number of attacks (a halfway decent Ranger should be able to make six attacks per round at Belkar’s level). Elan wields a Rapier, and he’d probably get more benefit out of Weapon Finesse; he’d get a comparatively large boost to his chances to hit. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3536 "2012-02-15T22:49:43Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Mainly it’s that Roy wields a two-handed weapon. > > WHen wielding a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon in two hands, **the bonus damage from Strength is multiplied by 1½** ; in other words Roy gets a +4 or +5 increase to damage per blow with the Belt, as well as a +3 bonus to hit. (I’m assuming a belt +6 because, at their level, that’s what the bonus to a primary attribute should be.) (Bolding mine) I didn’t know about that! ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3537 "2012-02-16T01:24:42Z")
[Next strip is up.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3538 "2012-02-16T01:33:09Z")
Kobold’s still alive. Poor kobold. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3539 "2012-02-16T03:01:24Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Nevermind. > > Roy probably has feats based on his STR score, while Belkar and Elan have feats based on DEX or CHA, right? Actually the Belkster doesn’t really need much Dex - as a Ranger he gets the two weapon fighting feats for free even if he doesn’t meet the pre-reqs (as long as he’s not wearing medium or heavy armour). He probably wants 18 anyway (to max out the dex bonus to AC he can get in a chain shirt) but beyond that it’s better to go with more STR for the bonus to damage and to-hit rolls. Going full on Dex + weapon finesse is not really a good idea for a shoeless god of war like Belkar who can’t rely on sneak attack dice, spells, buffs or natural abilities to deal damage, doesn’t have anything better to do in a fight \*than \*deal damage and isn’t exactly a dex skill monkey either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3540 "2012-02-16T03:38:24Z")
In 2nd edition, a Belt of Giant Strength gave you the strength of a particular sort of giant, no more, no less, regardless of what your natural strength score was. So it actually made sense to give it to one of the weaker members of your party, since they would get the most use out of it. In 3rd edition (which the comic uses), though, it gives either a +4 or a +6 (depending on the belt) to whatever your existing strength score is. And a +4 or +6 to strength is a +2 or +3 to your strength modifier, which is what you add to your attack and damage rolls. So you’d get the same damage increase no matter who wore the belt. Well, sort of. There are a few other things that make a difference. First of all, bonus damage doesn’t mean anything if you miss, so you want to put the most bonus damage on whoever has the best chance to hit. That’s almost certainly Roy or Belkar, and more likely Roy since he’s got a really nice weapon. Second, the Str mod adding to damage is only for a normal-sized one-handed weapon: Light weapons, like Belkar uses, each only get half of the Str mod, and two-handed weapons, like Roy uses, get 1.5 times the Str mod. And third, the added damage is per attack, so you want it to be on someone who has a lot of attacks: Belkar almost certainly has more attacks per round than Roy (due to wielding two weapons), but Roy has more than anyone else in the party. Oh, and of course, you also want to make sure to give it to someone who’s fighting in melee. Vaarsuvius never does, and Haley doesn’t whenever she can avoid it, so a bonus to melee damage would be almost completely irrelevant to them. Elan usually does, and Durkon sometimes, but even there, they’ll spend some rounds casting spells, or (in Elan’s case) singing, during which time it’d also be going to waste. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3541 "2012-02-16T05:52:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, sort of. There are a few other things that make a difference. First of all, bonus damage doesn’t mean anything if you miss, so you want to put the most bonus damage on whoever has the best chance to hit. That’s almost certainly Roy or Belkar, and more likely Roy since he’s got a really nice weapon. Belkar’s attacks suffer from the dual-wielding penalty as well, even with the Two Weapon Fighting combat style. On any given attack, Roy is certainly more likely to hit. He also has Great Cleave, IIRC, so against hordes of mooks (which is also where Belkar’s extra attacks really shine), he should end up getting a fair number of extra licks in. I’ve been tinkering with an experimental ranger build in Pathfinder\*, and I’ve come to the conclusion that the dual-wield option, though popular, really isn’t optimal in Pathfinder or 3.5. You can get the almost same max damage per round with a two-handed weapon (given the 1.5x strength bonus), and have a better chance to hit. My number-crunching shows that you’re spending a class feature to possibly get a tiny increase in average damage against easy targets, and a serious decrease against hard-to-hit targets. Of course, it comes as no surprise that Belkar’s build isn’t optimized. Given that, in addition to your other points, I’m pretty sure it’s more effective on Roy. \*It’s even worse in Pathfinder–going with a two-handed weapon + Archery combat style lets you build a ranger that’s fairly competitive with fighters in melee, and basically gets his archery stuff for free. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=176) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=178)