# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 185
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3682 "2012-02-21T23:59:51Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What’s inherently evil about animating the dead ? I guess there would be a consent argument, same as harvesting organs, but beyond that I honestly don’t see what’s the big, or how the “it depends what you do with them” argument wouldn’t apply. D&D defines creating animate, inherently malicious vessels of anti-life as evil. Animating the body also disrupts the soul in some manner. > [@](#): > > Mindraping a bandit into giving himself to the authorities IS very different from manhandling them yourself, too. It’s, well, _mindrape_. It doesn’t really get more rapey than violating someone’s entire body and will all in one go. You’re basically inducing locked-in syndrome, which is the stuff of nightmares even before you’re forced to act against your own will ! You’re redefining the spell to suit your argument. But even for the spells that _do_ paralyse the target, inducing locked-in syndrome is not evil unless you’re using it on the wrong people or for the wrong reasons. If some bandit is trying to kill innocent people or steal innocent people’s property, they have forfeited their freedom. Or are you going to start calling all prisons inherently evil too? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3683 "2012-02-22T00:14:16Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > His favoured enemies are obviously: > > 1. living creatures > 2. the undead He doesn’t like spirit realm horses much either. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3684 "2012-02-22T00:20:25Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > He doesn’t like spirit realm horses much either. _sigh_ I wonder if we’ll ever get a glimpse of Miko’s afterlife. I wonder about her a lot - she’s pretty much my favorite OotS character. I hope that she found the wisdom she lacked in life, or at least peace. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3685 "2012-02-22T00:24:51Z")
Windstriker would technically be considered living, since he has a Constitution score. The only D&D creatures that don’t count as living are undead, deathless (like undead only good), and (most) constructs. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3686 "2012-02-22T01:22:31Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > D&D defines creating animate, inherently malicious vessels of anti-life as evil. Yes. I know. I think it’s silly. That was the whole argument. > [@](#): > > You’re redefining the spell to suit your argument. How am I redefining anything ? > [@](#): > > If some bandit is trying to kill innocent people or steal innocent people’s property, they have forfeited their freedom. If only the poopyheads who penned the Bill of Rights had known ! That would have saved so much hassle 🙂 And no, I’m not a fan of prisons in general, even though I understand they’re a necessary evil. That being said, if you see no meaningful distinction between being confined to a cell and being robbed of your entire self, I’m not quite sure what to tell you. Would you be in favour of icepick lobotomies for inmates ? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3687 "2012-02-22T01:39:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > That number of magnets is really going to screw with the postal services scanners. It might aslo be the thing that causes our fridge to finally tip over from the weight of stuff on the door. > Worth it, totally. To tell the truth, padded envelopes with magnets inside are FAR more likely to get stuck to the side of the parcel-sorting machine. The OCR software that directs the individual packages to their destinations operates by scanning an image of the address, not the actual parcel itself. The cameras aren’t really vulnerable to disruption by the weak magnetic fields associated with refrigerator magnets. OTOH, during the singulation phase\* of the sorting process, the padded mailers can very easily be on edge, and allow the magnets to stick the package to the walls between which the conveyor belts run. \*“singulation” being the process by which a huge pile of parcels is first placed into a single layer, then the individual parcels placed in a single file line. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3688 "2012-02-22T01:54:20Z")
Is it just me or are Belkar and V getting along better in the past few strips? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3689 "2012-02-22T02:06:51Z")
And so are their animal companion/ familiar. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3690 "2012-02-22T02:28:55Z")
Question about “prepared-type” spells: if a spellcaster doesn’t use them during the day following preparation, do they expire? Or do they have a shelf life? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3691 "2012-02-22T02:31:03Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Is it just me or are Belkar and V getting along better in the past few strips? Yeah, Vaarsuvius only paid to kick Belkar three times. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3692 "2012-02-22T02:43:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Question about “prepared-type” spells: if a spellcaster doesn’t use them during the day following preparation, do they expire? Or do they have a shelf life? No. Once you’ve “armed” a spell such that you can unleash it at a few second’s notice, the only things that will disarm it are death, firing it off, deliberately disarming it so you can prepare another in its place and a few specific anti-magic magics like Spellthieves. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3693 "2012-02-22T02:51:10Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > _sigh_ I wonder if we’ll ever get a glimpse of Miko’s afterlife. I think Rich has said somewhere or other that he has absolutely no intention of opening that can of worms. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3694 "2012-02-22T04:45:02Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I think Rich has said somewhere or other that he has absolutely no intention of opening that can of worms. Berlew’s intentions aside, is there any fan consensus if Miko would get a LG or CG (or LN, or whatever) afterlife? She’s told by Soon that her horse would visit her, but she did a pretty evil (or at least not Lawful?) act, and the Gods were pretty unhappy about that, so it doesn’t seem settled to me that she gets the same alignment afterlife as the horse. Maybe Windstriker can portal to wherever Miko actually ends up, “as much as he is able” ? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3695 "2012-02-22T05:04:17Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Berlew’s intentions aside, is there any fan consensus if Miko would get a LG or CG (or LN, or whatever) afterlife? She’s told by Soon that her horse would visit her, but she did a pretty evil (or at least not Lawful?) act, and the Gods were pretty unhappy about that, so it doesn’t seem settled to me that she gets the same alignment afterlife as the horse. Maybe Windstriker can portal to wherever Miko actually ends up, “as much as he is able” ? Well, if it helps, back when the Crack Pairings thread was a thing that wasn’t banned forever and back when I read fanfic, there was a Roy/Miko fic that had them both in the LG afterlife, and it seemed pretty plausible. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3696 "2012-02-22T05:58:39Z")
> [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > Well, if it helps, back when the Crack Pairings thread was a thing that wasn’t banned forever and back when I read fanfic, there was a Roy/Miko fic that had them both in the LG afterlife, and it seemed pretty plausible. Hmm, I can’t help but think the Bureaucratic Deva (AKA “Ms. Being of Pure Law and Good”) in [this strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html) might have some tense words with Miko before that could happen. That also seems plausible. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3697 "2012-02-22T06:31:22Z")
Here are the descriptions of various D&D alignment-based afterlifes: > **[Outer Plane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Plane)** > > In the fantasy role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons, an Outer Plane is one of a number of general types of planes of existence. They can also be referred to as godly planes, spiritual planes or divine planes. The Outer Planes are home to beings such as deities and their servants such as demons, celestials and devils. Each Outer Plane is usually the physical manifestation of a particular moral and ethical alignment and the entities that dwell there often embody the traits related to that alignme... While Miko’s horse Windstriker probably resides in the LG Mount Celestia, it seems clear that Miko won’t make the cut. I’m not sure where she would go though. Keeping her lawful alignment and dropping down on the evil dimension puts her in: Arcadia, The Land of Perfect Order, “A peaceful place where all live in harmony; consequently, it is quite dull.” Dropping down another level: Mechanus, LN, “This clockwork plane is the ultimate in order; scholars and constructs live here.” Hard to imagine Miko there. Dropping down another level: Acheron, LE, “A plane of constant, pointless war, where identity is forever lost.” That seems a little much. Maybe Miko could apply for the CN/CG, Ysgard, “The eternal battleground where true heroes prove their valor.” That seems more like her style. I suspect it might require some adjustment: that sector is also favored by rogues. If karma bit hard, I suspect that she might end up in CN Limbo, “An alien, anarchistic and unpredictable plane.” Where else might the delusional meet their end? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3698 "2012-02-22T06:44:37Z")
I think Miko’s alignment violation was on the ethical, not moral axis. She legitimately thought she was killing an evil doer. She was wrong, but that doesn’t make her act evil. However, she decided to take matters into her own hands, and kill the man she was sworn to protect, rather than let the legal system work. Which is a chaotic act. I’d say shes most likely in Ysgard. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3699 "2012-02-22T06:57:50Z")
If we were ever going to see Miko in the afterlife, wouldn’t it logically have been right after her death? And her problem was always that she was too much of the Lawful and not enough of the Good. Remember, she actually enforces mattress tags. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3700 "2012-02-22T10:17:25Z")
So much for “a comic a day”… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3701 "2012-02-22T13:25:02Z")
I believe Rich said “a comic a day until the pladge drive was over.” But he missed a day, so that was supposed to extend it another day. Hmmmm… I hope he’s just so busy prepping the Final Mystery Prize that he just forgot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=184) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=186)