# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 186
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3702 "2012-02-22T15:57:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And her problem was always that she was too much of the Lawful and not enough of the Good. Remember, she actually enforces mattress tags. Maybe, but it’s pretty clear she fell because she violated the “lawful” principle of her alignment. [Here’s](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html) the comic where she falls. Note what she says to justify murdering Shojo: “The laws have no meaning.” She’s abandoned the system of laws and fealty she swore to uphold. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3703 "2012-02-22T16:54:45Z")
Rich on the GitP forums on the backer-chosen PDFs: “Still subject to change, but: Therkla, the Cliffport Cops, and a pre-Order Belkar story.” Cool. I’ve seen some other people express desires to see stories about other unexpected incidental characters such as the [dirt farmers](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0212.html)or [Fruit Pie the Sorceror](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0091.html)(or indeed [Popcorn](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html)) so it could have been worse. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3704 "2012-02-22T17:00:41Z")
He said “a comic a day”. He didn’t say _when_ during that day. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3705 "2012-02-22T17:07:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If we were ever going to see Miko in the afterlife, wouldn’t it logically have been right after her death? > > And her problem was always that she was too much of the Lawful and not enough of the Good. Remember, she actually enforces mattress tags. Miko’s problem is that she was clever enough to come up with a convoluted conspiracy theory (Xykon, Shojo, and the OotS are all working together!) but not wise enough to realize it was almost certainly nonsense, and too arrogant to consider alternatives. You can see this person in nearly every conspiracy theorist who wanders into the SDMB. Is Rich using any D&D based afterlife system? So far we have seen the lawful good afterlife, a bit of hell, and a glimpse of the goblinoid afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3706 "2012-02-22T20:38:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “Still subject to change, but: Therkla, the Cliffport Cops, and a pre-Order Belkar story.” What exactly would Belkar have done that was noteworthy, pre-Stick? Kill people, kill more people, set people on fire… I don’t really see a story in there. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3707 "2012-02-22T20:41:14Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > What exactly would Belkar have done that was noteworthy, pre-Stick? Kill people, kill more people, set people on fire… I don’t really see a story in there. What about his slave-trading days with Buggy-Lou? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3708 "2012-02-22T22:38:08Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > What exactly would Belkar have done that was noteworthy, pre-Stick? Kill people, kill more people, set people on fire… I don’t really see a story in there. “Spoken like a man who’s never had to flee a jurisdiction in his life.” ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3709 "2012-02-22T23:55:07Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Belkar question: > > In D&D ver 3.0, weren’t Rangers required to pick a “hated foe” every now and then? > > Did Belkar pick kobolds? > > 🙂 > > Is Mr. Scruffy his “animal companion”? While I don’t disagree with any of the above responses to your questions, you should know that we haven’t explicitly been told what Belkar’s favored enemies are or that Mr. Scruffy is his animal companion. However, it seems extremely likely that Mr. Scruffy is indeed his animal companion. It also seems likely that Belkar would have picked goblinoids as a favored enemy, given how often the OOTS fight goblins, hobgoblins, and the like. Since he’s somewhere in the vicinity of 15th level, he has either two or three favored enemies. By the way, has there ever been any reason given for the name "Order of the Stick? ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3710 "2012-02-22T23:59:38Z")
In _Origin_, they’re trying to come up with a name for themselves, and the names they come up with are all stupid. Roy sarcastically suggests they name themselves after “that stick lying on the ground over there”- and they take him up on it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3711 "2012-02-23T01:01:51Z")
Where the “they” is mostly Elan. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3712 "2012-02-23T02:25:44Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > While I don’t disagree with any of the above responses to your questions, you should know that we haven’t explicitly been told what Belkar’s favored enemies are or that Mr. Scruffy is his animal companion. However, it seems extremely likely that Mr. Scruffy is indeed his animal companion. It also seems likely that Belkar would have picked goblinoids as a favored enemy, given how often the OOTS fight goblins, hobgoblins, and the like. Since he’s somewhere in the vicinity of 15th level, he has either two or three favored enemies. Does a ranger (or barbarian?) have some special advantage or whatever over a “favored enemy” ? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3713 "2012-02-23T02:35:38Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Does a ranger (or barbarian?) have some special advantage or whatever over a “favored enemy” ? They get some pretty decent attack and damage bonuses, as well as bonuses to a handful of skills when used against a creature of that type. Only rangers\* get this as a class ability, not barbarians. \*of the base classes; some prestige classes also have this ability. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3714 "2012-02-23T02:48:02Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > It also seems likely that Belkar would have picked goblinoids as a favored enemy, given how often the OOTS fight goblins, hobgoblins, and the like. I figure it’s kobolds. While Belkar’s certainly willing to kill goblins and hobgoblins (and humans and orcs and elves and dwarves and gnomes and bugbears and giants and merfolk and…) he especially enjoys killing kobolds. And Burlew chooses kobolds to be Belkar’s evil opposites. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3715 "2012-02-23T02:51:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Belkar’s evil opposites. Individually, those three words have meaning. But strung together like that? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3716 "2012-02-23T03:20:11Z")
Burlew said when he was originally designing the Linear Guild, he had problems coming up with Belkar’s evil opposite. And then he realized Belkar’s evil opposite was somebody exactly like Belkar. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3717 "2012-02-23T05:08:14Z")
As an aside, a prediction: The entire canyon is an illusion. There is no real canyon there at all. Why do I say this? Well, Girard obviously expected the false coordinates to fool Soon. But Soon has been to all of the rift locations before (when they were securing them, before they made the Gates), and even if he wasn’t the guy who was making the maps, he should still remember what the basic terrain looks like. In order for the false coordinates to fool him, the rift location had to look like the coordinate location: A scrap of featureless desert in the middle of nowhere. But now here we have a very distinctive canyon network, which has heavy illusions and epic anti-divination spells in it, and which is also identified as the location in Serini’s diary. So presumably, the canyon is the right location, but it wasn’t a canyon when Soon saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3718 "2012-02-23T13:01:00Z")
I figure it’s something big like that. I’m betting that Haley will finally have a revelation about how their overlooking the obvious based on assumptions of what they see. Or maybe the original location where they found the message from Girard is the real spot and they’ve been sent off on a wild goose chase. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3719 "2012-02-23T13:51:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As an aside, a prediction: > > The entire canyon is an illusion. There is no real canyon there at all. I think that’s a bit too much. > [@](#): > > Why do I say this? Well, Girard obviously expected the false coordinates to fool Soon. But Soon has been to all of the rift locations before (when they were securing them, before they made the Gates), and even if he wasn’t the guy who was making the maps, he should still remember what the basic terrain looks like. … Point taken, and I’ve said the same thing. But there are two things you’ve forgotten. Firstly, their information only tells them that Orrin Draketooth is located in the canyon. They don’t actually say that either Girrard or the gate is there. Secondly, Girards gate isn’t in completely featureless desert. There are mountains [visible in the background](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html). It could be the same spot as the pyramid. Personally, I expect the real gate to be within a few miles of the fake location. Why? Because Soon would have an approximate idea of the location. He would know that they set off from Sandsedge, and travelled North West for 4 1/2 days, or something similar. He could be fooled by a fake location 10 miles from the real one. With 30 miles difference he might not be fooled. 100 miles and he almost certainly wouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3720 "2012-02-23T15:06:01Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Or maybe the original location where they found the message from Girard is the real spot and they’ve been sent off on a wild goose chase. They [specifically discussed that](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0697.html), and Haley dismissed that as unlikely. So probably not that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3721 "2012-02-23T17:53:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Firstly, their information only tells them that Orrin Draketooth is located in the canyon. They don’t actually say that either Girrard or the gate is there. _Their_ information, yes. But Team Evil is also heading for the Windy Canyon, and their information comes from Serini’s diary. And the Order of the Scribble could easily have been high enough level by that point that Soon wouldn’t have had any part in their travel arrangements. Yeah, he’d notice how many days’ march it was… But how long would it take via teleportation, or Phantom Steed, or Wind Walk? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=185) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=187)