# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 193
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3842 "2012-02-29T16:06:10Z")
Great strip. I do wonder how Belkar was able to smell the bodies before the illusion was dispelled by V. If Belkar could smell the bodies, you’d think the beetles could too. The family tree was a little too obvious for my liking, but OTOH, it did get the essential information right out in the open quickly. Oh, and where’s the rest of the family: that chart was huge. They aren’t all in that dining hall, I don’t think. While Girard may or may not be dead, Tarquin certainly isn’t. And I still think that V’s reveal that s/he’s responsible for the massacre is going to be made in such a manner that Tarquin will hear about it, and get really pissed off that V killed his wife. Not sure how that’ll affect the throwdown at the Gate, but maybe Tarquin’s a much less effective fighter if he’s consumed with blind rage? What do you think Roy and the Order will do when they find out? Would (should?) V even tell them? How do you even begin to atone for such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3843 "2012-02-29T16:22:22Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > How do you even begin to atone for such a thing? Hallmark card. Probably one with sound recording so you can put in a personalized message. Also, those that are concerned with the potential amount of inbreeding in the Draketooth line probably need to step back and comprehend that, at some point, a dragon had sex with a human. Or, as was said in a comic appropriately titled [Half-Dragons Are Even Worse](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html) “chief grukgruk frankly not want dwell on that very much” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3844 "2012-02-29T19:00:08Z")
Both humans and dragons are, in D&D-land, species-sluts. There are human crossbreeds with almost everything, and dragon crossbreeds with even more. If you really want the brain bleach, it’s possible to have a half-dragon gelatinous cube. And I’m betting that the next comic will feature only V and Blackwing, debating over whether to tell everyone else about the Familicide. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3845 "2012-02-29T19:22:51Z")
Keep in mind that dragons can sometimes take on humanoid form, metallic dragons innately and chromatic dragons once they’ve achieved sufficient prowess as sorcerers (polymorph). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3846 "2012-02-29T19:37:37Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Great strip. I do wonder how Belkar was able to smell the bodies before the illusion was dispelled by V. Could be a trick by Burlew. We haven’t established that Belkar was smelling the corpses. In point of fact, Burlew is hinting it wasn’t the corpses. So the next strip may have the Linear Guild popping out on them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3847 "2012-02-29T19:38:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think people who marry into the family are affected. As Vaarsuvius said, the spell was intended to kill of everyone who would have a personal interest in revenge. And look at Vaarsuvius - he killed the dragon because of a threat to his mate. So he would realize that killing off all those other dragons (and their children) and leaving their mates alive would actually increase the chances of some dragon seeking him out for vengeance rather than eliminating it. Although it belatedly occurs to me that Tarquin is still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3848 "2012-02-29T19:43:08Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > It’s not her - in #628, she says the dragon V disintegrated was her only child. Only child ever, or only living child? If the latter, The Dragon could have been the clan’s grandma. Regarding everyone’s reactions, how mitigated will they be by the fact that the spell was aimed at an evil dragon (color coded for your convenience)? * * * > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > No survey in my inbox yet! Just reread Origin of Pcs and start of darkness. Can’t wait to be sent all the full colour books! Magnets and stuff will be nice filler, but its all about the books! Got my survey yesterday and returned it last night. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3849 "2012-02-29T19:53:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Both humans and dragons are, in D&D-land, species-sluts. There are human crossbreeds with almost everything, and dragon crossbreeds with even more. I looked but couldn’t find the comic I originally cribbed this from: > [@](#): > > Human: “Hey elf, you look like a girl.” > Elf (sneering a little): “To a human, _everything_ must look like a girl.” > Human: “What?” > Elf: “Half-orcs, half-ogres…” > Human: “… shut up.” > Dwarf: “Half-dragons, half-kobolds.” > Human: “I said shut up!” > Elf: … > Dwarf: … > Human: … > Elf: “Centaurs.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3850 "2012-02-29T19:56:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Although it belatedly occurs to me that Tarquin is still alive. He’s a mate of an (ex-)mate, I _think_ that puts him one step outside the spell. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3851 "2012-02-29T20:03:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > He’s a mate of an (ex-)mate, I _think_ that puts him one step outside the spell. He was (at the time of the casting of Familicide) the mate of the MOTHER of a direct descendant of the dragon. There’s still wiggle room to say that that’s a step beyond the influence of the spell, but the connection’s a little more direct than the mate of an ex-mate. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3852 "2012-02-29T20:06:50Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > He was (at the time of the casting of Familicide) the mate of the MOTHER of a direct descendant of the dragon. There’s still wiggle room to say that that’s a step beyond the influence of the spell, but the connection’s a little more direct than the mate of an ex-mate. _She_ wasn’t directly related to the dragon (first tier) so she’s second tier. That makes Tarquin third tier. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3853 "2012-02-29T21:13:14Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Regarding everyone’s reactions, how mitigated will they be by the fact that the spell was aimed at an evil dragon (color coded for your convenience)? Perhaps. But we just saw Roy talking about how it wasn’t right to abuse the kobold. So the “it’s okay if the victim is evil” defense is already foreshadowed as unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3854 "2012-02-29T21:47:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Perhaps. But we just saw Roy talking about how it wasn’t right to abuse the kobold. So the “it’s okay if the victim is evil” defense is already foreshadowed as unlikely. I know that it’s not okay to hurt of kill someone just because they’re evil. I know it’s definite that not everyone killed by the spell was evil. And that V knew that the spell was not constrained to evil family members, or even all-dragon family members. I’m not trying to exonerate V, either. I’m just trying to predict what the reactions will be and whether the rest of the crew will have trouble deciding what their reactions are. On the disturbed-but-not-totally-appalled side there’s protecting injured children that are about to be murdered and soul enslaved. And also that the spell was cast at a supposedly evil dragon who was acting in a violent manner. (A dragon whose child the whole group fought previously and whose death they’ve lost no sleep over.) On the completely-and-totally-appalled side there’s the massive overkill and the worldwide collateral damage. Also the renting your soul thing, the repercussions of which are still up in the air; repercussions that are looking a bit more dire now that the happy side of that bargain turned out so badly. I won’t get into the loss of sleep vs PTSD and the temptation for power vs hey, you could cut off your head, because V never shared the PTSD and I don’t think either subject will come up in the first rounds of group discussion. But I think that the other things listed above will. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3855 "2012-02-29T21:58:38Z")
Thanks, **Der Trihs** , I was going to dig that up, too, but didn’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3856 "2012-02-29T22:31:13Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > He was (at the time of the casting of Familicide) the mate of the MOTHER of a direct descendant of the dragon. There’s still wiggle room to say that that’s a step beyond the influence of the spell, but the connection’s a little more direct than the mate of an ex-mate. Tarquin is pretty high level. Can you roll a save against an epic spell? Again, I’m puzzled at the whole “boohoo, the family is dead” attitude. In the OOTS Universe, aren’t you just a few diamonds away from a family reunion? I know diamonds are expensive, but after Haley and Belkar’s rampage against the Thieve’s guild, they paid for the diamonds to bring everyone back. So it’s not that inconceivably expensive. Certainly, if Girard is still alive, he’s got the magical moxie to either revive the family or find someone who can. Is there some element to familicide that says “This death is for keepsies”? ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3857 "2012-02-29T23:09:23Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Is there some element to familicide that says “This death is for keepsies”? It was a death effect, which prevents Raise Dead (the cheapest option) from working. Resurrection still should, though. You just have to find a caster who’s high enough level, and willing to help. And twice as many diamonds per person … ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3858 "2012-02-29T23:17:14Z")
Also, they don’t really have time to rez all the Draketeeth. With the gate open for taking, I don’t know if they have time to even rez one. I think the GitP forum said that Ressurection takes twice as long as Raise Dead. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3859 "2012-02-29T23:21:14Z")
So how come Roy was [Resurrected](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0665.html) instead of Raise Dead-ed? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3860 "2012-02-29T23:26:40Z")
First line of the raise dead spell description on the [d20](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm) > [@](#): > > You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per caster level Roy was dead much longer than that. Also he was made into a bone golem and broken down, which might be out of the scope of Raise Dead. The page isn’t that clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/3861 "2012-02-29T23:27:46Z")
Raise Dead only works for a limited time, (a couple days, I believe). Since Roy was dead for several months, they needed to Resurrect him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=192) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=194)