# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 210
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4182 "2012-04-27T06:33:15Z")
Bah. I thought there was a new one. False alarm, all, sorry. But as long as I’m bumping this thread … any thoughts as to when and how V will be rejoining the action? ---
**Author:** ![Heller\_Highwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@Heller\_Highwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heller_Highwater)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4183 "2012-05-01T07:49:46Z")
[New one’s up.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html) Always gotta’ love a good grammar pun. Some of Tarqin’s actions seem decidedly un-Thog like there. That might be the sort of thing Roy or Durkon could catch on to. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4184 "2012-05-01T08:05:37Z")
Just what level is Tarqin, anyway? The man has game. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4185 "2012-05-01T09:10:45Z")
They also serve, who only stand and distract the bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4186 "2012-05-01T11:17:05Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The more suspicious part (to me) was Tarquin’s pleasure at being attacked by the Order in the last panel. Is he a distraction? Whose plan is he thinking “magnificent”? Considering he’s tanking the entire OOTS (minus V) all by himself, distraction would fit the bill. On the other hand, it’s possible that Nale chose the moment daddy dearest was locked in the middle of a one-on-four fight with high level do gooders to switch back to his own side, and is fighting Malack and the kobold clerk off panel with Sabine and Z. (I gotta say though, that arrow snatch 'n stab is a thing of beauty. When did he get levels in Monk ? And perhaps more to the point, how does he figure he’ll fool anyone into thinking he’s Thog when he’s snatching arrows in mid-air ?) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4187 "2012-05-01T12:04:09Z")
I think Roy is going to figure it out just from the fighting style. Also, now that Tarquin has shown his moves, the Order is going to be more careful and fight accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4188 "2012-05-01T12:29:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > (I gotta say though, that arrow snatch 'n stab is a thing of beauty. When did he get levels in Monk ? You don’t need to be a Monk to do it, it just gives you the prerequisites as bonus feats. There are lots of cool things you can do if you put your mind to it - one of my favourites was a character who could perform a one-handed chokeslam as a charge reaction. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4189 "2012-05-01T14:17:19Z")
I don’t get what he did to Durkon. Please explain panel #8. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4190 "2012-05-01T14:18:41Z")
Can Haley use a blade? (Or sap? or anything other than a bow?) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4191 "2012-05-01T14:22:33Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I don’t get what he did to Durkon. Please explain panel #8. After shrugging off the “Hold Person” spell, he punnily reached forward to hold a person (namely, Durkon) and spun around in place like an Olympic hammer-thrower, causing the guy he’d grabbed to build up momentum before a fine bit of dwarf-tossing. Same combat move our hero does in SUPERMAN II, if that helps you. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4192 "2012-05-01T14:22:51Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I don’t get what he did to Durkon. Please explain panel #8. Dwarf tossing, of course. Specifically, he swings Durkon around and around before releasing him (WHOOOOSH!). ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4193 "2012-05-01T14:27:08Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > After shrugging off the “Hold Person” spell, he punnily reached forward to hold a person (namely, Durkon) and spun around in place like an Olympic hammer-thrower, causing the guy he’d grabbed to build up momentum before a fine bit of dwarf-tossing. Same combat move our hero does in SUPERMAN II, if that helps you. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Dwarf tossing, of course. Specifically, he swings Durkon around and around before releasing him (WHOOOOSH!). Ah! Thanks. For some reason, it looked to me like Tarquin threw Durkon over his shoulder, and was carrying him off into the temple. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4194 "2012-05-01T15:00:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > (I gotta say though, that arrow snatch 'n stab is a thing of beauty. When did he get levels in Monk ? He could be using Tome of Battle-style maneuvers as well. (Assuming that there’s any D&D basis behind what he’s doing at all, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4195 "2012-05-01T15:08:22Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > He could be using Tome of Battle-style maneuvers as well. (Assuming that there’s any D&D basis behind what he’s doing at all, of course.) You can take “snatch arrows” as a fighter bonus feat, though that should prove he’s not Thog. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4196 "2012-05-01T16:02:04Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You don’t need to be a Monk to do it, it just gives you the prerequisites as bonus feats. > > There are lots of cool things you can do if you put your mind to it - one of my favourites was a character who could perform a one-handed chokeslam as a charge reaction. 😃 To clarify: I know Deflect Arrows is a feat like any other, it’s just that on the whole it’s a shit feat. It’s conditional on something you can’t control (i.e. somebody shooting at you) that won’t come into play in many, many battles (basically it only works against humanoid opponents since monsters typically have their own ranged attacks, acid spews or spell-likes to chuck instead), it doesn’t even work to deflect arrow-like spells which would make it marginally more useful (screw your magic missiles !). But worst of all: it only kills one ranged attack per round, which at low levels means very little as archers won’t have any of the feats that make archery competitive with melee ; while at high level the archer(s) will simply shrug and fire another twelve flaming shots at your noggin’. Hence the Monk assumption: it’s an OK feat for monks because they get it as a freebie on top of plenty of other, actually \*good \*reasons to dip into Monk (and as a mate likes saying, “If it’s free it’s in my price range” :p). But as a fighter, ye gods why would you waste one of your precious, precious feat slots on that crap ?! And this is not just Deflect Arrows: it’s Snatch Arrows, which requires not only Deflect, but also Improved Unarmed Fighting (another meh feat Monks get for free but Warriors gotta pay for). So that’s 3 feats wasted just to… do something admittedly incredibly stylish :D. Still, I mean…yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4197 "2012-05-01T16:04:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > To clarify: I know Deflect Arrows is a feat like any other, it’s just that on the whole it’s a shit feat. Consider his sons’ builds. Perhaps the unoptimized apple does not fall far from the tree. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4198 "2012-05-01T16:08:18Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Can Haley use a blade? (Or sap? or anything other than a bow?) We’ve seen her use a knife (Crystal’s, when she gacked Crystal). And she used a sap at some point in the whole Greysky Thieves’ Guild plotline, I think. Plus, she’s stabbed Sabine with arrows sans bow at least once. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4199 "2012-05-01T16:14:41Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Can Haley use a blade? (Or sap? or anything other than a bow?) Short answer: yes, but no. Rogues have access to all simple weapons, plus a handful of martial weapons (from memory: rapier, shortsword, whip, hand crossbow, shortbow and blackjack). That said, just because she \*can \*technically wield one without a penalty doesn’t mean she’d be any good or efficient with it. For example, although her Sneak Attack could sort of bridge the damage gap, if she never took Weapon Finesse then she’d struggle just getting her blows to connect at all since she’s evidently focused on Dex rather than Str. Generally speaking, in AD&D (and Pathfinder) the higher level purely physical class you are the more specialized and narrowly focused you become, and the gimpier you get whenever you don’t have access to your weapon/tactical situation of choice. Spellcasters are of course all the more versatile the higher their level, because BALANCE! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4200 "2012-05-01T17:09:59Z")
For comparison, V considered emself useless in the Battle for Azure City once e’d run out of spells, even though e has bow proficiency automatically as an elf, since a wizard with a bow is much less effective than a wizard with spells. Although really, that would still probably put em in the top 20 or so archers in the city, just due to es high level (compared to the vast majority of soldiers). ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4201 "2012-05-01T23:49:13Z")
I rather like how Tarquin clearly expected Elan to be the big badass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=209) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=211)