# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 214
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4262 "2012-05-10T22:10:01Z")
I reckon it’s both - clearly, in-universe it’s just Tarquin being his prickish self, but on a meta level there’s no way in hell Burlew wasn’t aware that this was going to stir up exactly those kinds of conspiracy theories among his more prognosticating fanbase. He’s gone on the record as saying he disliked this hyper-analytic tendency among his fans because when they get it right he feels a need to change his plans ; and he’s certainly played with these sorts of expectations before (e.g. Tsukiko stumbling upon Miko’s corpse, thinking about raising her as some cool antipaladin undead then going “naaaah that’d be retarded”). This feels like more of the same, or at least coming from the same place. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4263 "2012-05-11T14:08:47Z")
If it were Thog prentending to be Tarquin pretending to be Thog, we would have a little green around those eyes peeping out from the mask. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4264 "2012-05-11T19:30:58Z")
Burlew knows that _anything_ he could possibly put in the comic will stir up crazy conspiracy theories among the fanbase. It’s not like he has to take that into account in his planning, because it’s guaranteed to happen regardless. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4265 "2012-05-12T05:20:24Z")
I was just thinking that however this fight works out, somehow it’ll leave intact with Tarquin his mistaken notion that Elan is really the leader/brains of the OOTS. Damned if I know how that could happen at this point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4266 "2012-05-12T13:01:28Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I was just thinking that however this fight works out, somehow it’ll leave intact with Tarquin his mistaken notion that Elan is really the leader/brains of the OOTS. Damned if I know how that could happen at this point. Hey, you remember what he told Nale back in 820, right? After revealing in 819 that he of course saw through the OOTS, who thought they’d just conned him? NALE: _“You knew I was watching the whole time, but said nothing? … I suppose you knew about my drow spy from the start, too … But you look like a fool for being ignorant!”_ TARQUIN: _“So what? Better to look the fool than be one.”_ Assume that Elan can’t possibly be as foolish as he looks and it makes sense for Tarquin to figure he takes after dear old dad; the problem is, Elan actually _ **is** _ that foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4267 "2012-05-12T13:33:58Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Assume that Elan can’t possibly be as foolish as he looks and it makes sense for Tarquin to figure he takes after dear old dad; the problem is, Elan actually _ **is** _ that foolish. And somehow, that is going to come back and bite him in the ass, enabling the OOTS to come out on top. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4268 "2012-05-12T16:32:37Z")
“My chief rabbit told me to guard this tunnel, and so here I will stay.” ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4269 "2012-05-12T17:58:08Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Assume that Elan can’t possibly be as foolish as he looks and it makes sense for Tarquin to figure he takes after dear old dad; the problem is, Elan actually _ **is** _ that foolish. I’ve never been sure of this. I think Elan is only playing the fool, part of being a bard, and is secretly a lot smarter than he appears. He certainly has moments of intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4270 "2012-05-12T18:19:53Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I’ve never been sure of this. I think Elan is only playing the fool, part of being a bard, and is secretly a lot smarter than he appears. He certainly has moments of intelligence. That presumes Elan is being deceitful and deceit appears to be completely absent from his character. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4271 "2012-05-12T19:00:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That presumes Elan is being deceitful In a manner of speaking, maybe. What he’s doing is playing a role. All actors are liars, but that doesn’t make them dishonest. > [@](#): > > and deceit appears to be completely absent from his character. He’s an illusionist. He’s all about deceiving people. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4272 "2012-05-12T19:21:49Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > He’s an illusionist. He’s all about deceiving people. He’s a bard… ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4273 "2012-05-12T20:52:43Z")
I like to think that Elan is a really smart person who decided to not play a powerful/smart character for once as a challenge. And he’s also pretending to be earnest to his fellow gamers as part of a side-bet with Roy. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4274 "2012-05-12T21:35:45Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > If it were Thog prentending to be Tarquin pretending to be Thog, we would have a little green around those eyes peeping out from the mask. I would like to go on record that this was a joke. A joke! Don’t you people know a joke when you hear one? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4275 "2012-05-12T21:41:39Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > I would like to go on record that this was a joke. A joke! Don’t you people know a joke when you hear one? Obviously it’s a joke, I’m not sure how much more clearly could he make it that Girard is using illusion to pretend to be Thog, Pretending to be Tarquin, Pretending to be Thog. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4276 "2012-05-12T22:07:43Z")
I thought he was still pretending to be a dead? Did I miss a memo? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4277 "2012-05-12T22:08:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “My chief rabbit told me to guard this tunnel, and so here I will stay.” Ah, Bigwig and Hazel-rah. That was such a great moment … . ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4278 "2012-05-12T23:21:18Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > In a manner of speaking, maybe. What he’s doing is playing a role. All actors are liars, but that doesn’t make them dishonest. > > He’s an illusionist. He’s all about deceiving people. But he’s fully prepared to expose his deepest secrets because he has nothing to hide from anyone and his heart is free of all doubt and fear. [cite](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0328.html) And he knows that he won’t get his happy ending if he isn’t honest. [cite](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4279 "2012-05-13T11:57:52Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I thought he was still pretending to be a dead? Did I miss a memo? Not that I’m aware of, and he’s doing a darn good job of it, too. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4280 "2012-05-14T15:08:16Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > I would like to go on record that this was a joke. A joke! Don’t you people know a joke when you hear one? …Only the funy ones. 😛 Sorry. You left yourself wide open with that one. 😛 I got whooshed. I thought you were another wild conspiracy hound. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4281 "2012-05-14T16:38:09Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I thought he was still pretending to be a dead? Did I miss a memo? It would be just like Burlew to set it up where all the normal conventions tell us Thog is still alive and later reveal that he really was killed. I can just see some character saying, _“Of course he’s dead. We dug up his corpse and everything. Why on earth would you think he’s alive? Didn’t you see him get crushed under a mountain of rocks? How could he have lived through that?”_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=213) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=215)