# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 220
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4382 "2012-07-17T16:54:50Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Tactical discussion. > > 1. Let’s stipulate that it is some form of nonmagical blindness agent. [squid ink, or a powder of some kind] In the Linear Guild (that is Nale’s group name, right?), who can counter it, or otherwise see? > > 2. Same question, except now it’s magic based darkness. Tarq’s got the [Ring](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0819.html) (panel 9) of [True Seeing](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm). So magical Darkness is out, as are magical illusions. But, I’m reading the description to mean that physical fogs and concealment still work. So an ink-bomb arrow, provided it wasn’t magical in nature, should be fine to conceal the Order? Gust of Wind or [Control Winds](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWinds.htm) should dissipate any fog. Control Winds has a duration of 10 min/level, and Malack is at least Level 15 to create mummies, so I’d guess his [Control Winds spell](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0849.html) is still active. Edit: Though it did come from a scroll, and scroll spells have what as their default casting level? Minimum caster level to cast a 5th level Cleric spell, or 9th level? Should still be active, I’d think, though Rich may have specified that the spell came from a scroll so as to provide an excuse for the duration to have expired now. Z could try to just Dispel any darkness or magic concealment—not sure how that would affect the mummies or any buffs on the LG. I guess Nale could try and Dispel too. Who knows what powers/abilities KilKil has? Can Sabine’s succubic [telepathy](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#telepathy) be used to try and detect the presence of a conscious mind within 100 feet? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4383 "2012-07-17T16:57:25Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Tactical discussion. > > 1. Let’s stipulate that it is some form of nonmagical blindness agent. [squid ink, or a powder of some kind] In the Linear Guild (that is Nale’s group name, right?), who can counter it, or otherwise see? > > 2. Same question, except now it’s magic based darkness. That depends on what it is, regardless of magical/non-magical. I can’t see how something like squid ink or carbon powder or whatever would give anyone any kind of lasting cloud of darkness. Best bet is that in the first scenario above, Z’zdrit or whatever his name is, Sabine, probably the kobold and the lizard man. I think all of those have infravision. Assuming magical, nobody…infravision doesn’t work in magical darkness. My knowledge may be an edition or two out of date, though. I’ve never even played 3.5. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4384 "2012-07-17T17:11:59Z")
I guess non-mogical darkness or obscurement would affect the Order just as much as the Linear guild… hmmm. Telepathy might let you know someone was present, but the LG knows the Order is down the hall already. I also don’t think telepathy would negate a melee in darkness penalty… Maybe the Order wants the Linear guild to burn through their dispels/spells or whatever, so they can’t dispel something else later on. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4385 "2012-07-17T17:29:44Z")
Perhaps a little obscuration is being used so the OOTS can wipe out the undead, which the Linear Guild seems to need to find _all_ the traps. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4386 "2012-07-17T17:42:15Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Perhaps a little obscuration is being used so the OOTS can wipe out the undead, which the Linear Guild seems to need to find _all_ the traps. Clever. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4387 "2012-07-17T17:46:45Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Perhaps a little obscuration is being used so the OOTS can wipe out the undead, which the Linear Guild seems to need to find _all_ the traps. Something I might try with this setup would be to turn as many of the undead as I could, forcing them to move into the darkened area/among the blinded foes (depending on how the stuff works). The objective would be to cause the enemy to attack their own undead minions under the assumption that my party had closed to melee. That would keep them occupied for a bit and cut down on the number of mummies we had to take out. While they’re busy, we clear out their remaining undead. Alternatively, it could be an attempt to provoke the LG into a blind charge that leads into one or more traps as they try to get out of the area of effect. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4388 "2012-07-17T17:59:00Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Something I might try with this setup would be to turn as many of the undead as I could, forcing them to move into the darkened area/among the blinded foes (depending on how the stuff works). The objective would be to cause the enemy to attack their own undead minions under the assumption that my party had closed to melee. That would keep them occupied for a bit and cut down on the number of mummies we had to take out. While they’re busy, we clear out their remaining undead. > > Alternatively, it could be an attempt to provoke the LG into a blind charge that leads into one or more traps as they try to get out of the area of effect. But if several or all members of the Linear Guild can dispel or see through the smoke/ink pack, they wouldn’t mistakenly attack the mummies, would they? (Or do a blind charge.) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4389 "2012-07-17T18:13:01Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > But if several or all members of the Linear Guild can dispel or see through the smoke/ink pack, they wouldn’t mistakenly attack the mummies, would they? (Or do a blind charge.) I assume the Order believes the trap will have some substantial effect on the Guild, or they wouldn’t have tried it. If it doesn’t, then no tactic based on it is likely to be all that successful. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4390 "2012-07-17T18:47:07Z")
Is Haley Camoflaged with grayish paint? Why is she a different color? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4391 "2012-07-17T18:55:41Z")
I think she’s supposed to be hiding in the shadows and the grey just doesn’t show up on Roy well. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4392 "2012-07-17T19:05:29Z")
I agree; it’s a shadow. Makes her look like a zombie, though. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4393 "2012-07-17T19:14:20Z")
A-ha! Maybe she’s wearing zombie-makeup so she can infiltrate the LG while the darkness arrow is in effect. Then sneak attack from behind while Roy and Durkon attack from the flanks and Belkar runs around stabbing everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4394 "2012-07-17T19:43:02Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Is Haley Camoflaged with grayish paint? Why is she a different color? I made the same point on the OOTS forum. People tell me it’s because she’s in shadows. But she is leaning out of the doorway. Her face shouldn’t be in shadow. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4395 "2012-07-17T19:48:18Z")
That’s why she’s in shadow. It’s supposed to clue you in that despite the minimalist geometry she is behind the door plane. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4396 "2012-07-17T19:57:38Z")
If that were true, she wouldn’t be able to fire her bow down the corridor. And even if it were true, it wouldn’t explain her skin colour. [Here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0155.html)’s what Haley looks like under low light. I think it’s an art error, like Sabine having two tails in the previous picture. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4397 "2012-07-17T20:22:33Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > I assume the Order believes the trap will have some substantial effect on the Guild, or they wouldn’t have tried it. If it doesn’t, then no tactic based on it is likely to be all that successful. Right. That’s why I’m trying to guess what the Order is up to. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4398 "2012-07-17T20:34:48Z")
Two things I noticed on a re-read. It’s always hard to tell given the level of art in the strip but Tarquin seems to be waiting in the penultimate panel. It looks like he knows the arrow is going to explode and has already incorporated this into his plans. Which is not improbable given what we’ve seen of Tarquin. The second is Tarquin’s hint that he’s slept with Sabine. I expect that was foreshadowing of a future confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4399 "2012-07-17T20:46:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The second is Tarquin’s hint that he’s slept with Sabine. I expect that was foreshadowing of a future confrontation. Very possible, but then again, all succubi have innate talents in the sexual arena. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4400 "2012-07-17T20:53:03Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The arrow fired at the “Bad Guy” that gets caught in mid-air, then turns out to be an exploding one. That’s how Hawkeye zapped Loki in the movie. The same tactic is used in Frank Miller’s _The Dark Knight Returns_ by Green Arrow and Batman against Superman. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4401 "2012-07-18T00:17:47Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Very possible, but then again, all succubi have innate talents in the sexual arena. True, but Tarquin was saying he could personally attest to her skills. This might explain why Sabine seems so hostile to Tarquin. She’s not only matching Nale’s hostility towards his father but she’s also aware Tarquin has the ability to hurt her relationship with Nale by telling Nale what happened. My WAG: We’ve seen Sabine has a casual attitude about sex - for her, having sex with somebody appears to be no more significant than having a meal with them. But she’s in love with Nale. And she’s now found out that Nale has jealousy issues and doesn’t share her casual attitude about having sex with other people. So she may have slept with Tarquin at some earlier period before she realized it would bother Nale. And now that she does know this, she’s worried about Nale finding out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=219) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=221)