# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 224
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4462 "2012-07-26T16:24:22Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > [Meld Into Stone](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/meldIntoStone.htm), a 3rd-level cleric spell. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Spell description specifies “a single block of stone” but Durkon is stepping out of a junction of three blocks. Rich himself confirms Meld Into Stone [http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13620158&postcount=101](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13620158&postcount=101) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4463 "2012-07-26T16:28:57Z")
Meld into stone–good call! That’s almost certainly it, and is very much in keeping with the dwarfy feel to Durkon’s magic. As for the mummies, you’re probably right that they’re not destroyed. I’d quibble with the paralysis thing, though, as the spell says this result means they’re paralyzed and helpless. Undead can’t be paralyzed any more than they can be killed, but they can be rendered helpless. While there’s some room for quibbling on the exact wording of the spell, its intent (fucking up evil critters) seems pretty clear, and it would make little sense to me that undead would be less affected by this positive energy nuke than living evil guys. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4464 "2012-07-26T16:50:06Z")
Also, a minor thing, but (reading that GITP thread Peter linked to–thanks!) it appears that Durkon has the Good domain, meaning that he could cast Holy Word at +1 caster level. Even enemies who are the same level as him would be blinded, and he’d only need to be 17th level to kill the mummies. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4465 "2012-07-26T16:52:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Meld into stone–good call! That’s almost certainly it, and is very much in keeping with the dwarfy feel to Durkon’s magic. > > As for the mummies, you’re probably right that they’re not destroyed. I’d quibble with the paralysis thing, though, as the spell says this result means they’re paralyzed and helpless. Undead can’t be paralyzed any more than they can be killed, but they can be rendered helpless. While there’s some room for quibbling on the exact wording of the spell, its intent (fucking up evil critters) seems pretty clear, and it would make little sense to me that undead would be less affected by this positive energy nuke than living evil guys. I like the way you’re thinking about the helpless part of it. It wouldn’t be the first time there was ambiguity in D&D spell description leading to a rules-lawyer fight. (See, "Does Death Ward stop Destruction/Implosion?') Why not have, for undead that would otherwise be paralyzed, the undead act as though they were [Turned](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead)? This would seem to be in line with the spirit and escalating effects of Holy Word. Didn’t realize before you wrote it, just how well Meld fits thematically with a Dwarven Cleric. Nifty. I don’t think Durkon’s at Redcloak’s level, simply because he could have used some more devastating spells than Holy Word. Like Implosion or Storm of Vengeance, never mind Miracle. With Storm, he wouldn’t have even needed to get in the middle of the LG. (It also seems like something right up a Thor-worshipper’s alley.) Also, not sure how tactically wise it is to have your character in the middle of the traps’ kill-zones; you know, all of the traps you hope the blinded LG will stumble around and set off. [Edit] Also, we haven’t seen Durkon fire off an 8th level spell yet; what makes us think he can shoot off 9th level spells? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4466 "2012-07-26T17:24:19Z")
According to the link, Holy Word only works within 40 feet of the caster. Were the mummies close enough to be affected? The average city block is 300 feet, so a bit more than an eighth of a block would be out of range. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4467 "2012-07-26T17:48:59Z")
Well, given that it works on all non-Good beings in that radius, I’m sure thats why they did it far from Belkar (and Haley, though she might be CG and not CN, it’s probably best not to risk it.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4468 "2012-07-26T18:00:38Z")
On top of a new strip, my goodies finally arrived! Yea, me! Patches and coloring book and stickers and magnet and note pad and **Dungeon Crawlin’ Fools** and **Don’t Split the Party** , oh my! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4469 "2012-07-26T18:16:57Z")
The sliding iron door… triggered by Nale? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4470 "2012-07-26T18:20:31Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The sliding iron door… triggered by Nale? No, he set off the saw trap. Sabine clicked on the door trap with her tail. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4471 "2012-07-26T18:31:00Z")
presumably the Imp will be banished too? or is he outside the radius? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4472 "2012-07-26T18:35:11Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > presumably the Imp will be banished too? or is he outside the radius? The iron door will block the line of effect to the imp. I’d guess the mummies will be within range, since that’d be more dramatically interesting :). ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4473 "2012-07-26T18:48:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The iron door will block the line of effect to the imp. I’d guess the mummies will be within range, since that’d be more dramatically interesting :). reading this > [@](#): > > This effect takes place regardless of whether the creatures hear the holy word. > > and > Area: Nongood creatures in a 40-ft.-radius spread centered on you would seem to indicate if hes within 40ft hes gone ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4474 "2012-07-26T18:55:10Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, he set off the saw trap. Sabine clicked on the door trap with her tail. Damn. Why can’t I see these details without having to have someone point them out?!? Nales the one with the goatee, right? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4475 "2012-07-26T18:58:44Z")
I’m guessing Qarr won’t be banished. Rules of narrative. Burlew wouldn’t have put Qarr on the other side of the gate with Malack if he was just going to banish him along with Sabine. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4476 "2012-07-26T19:06:15Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > presumably the Imp will be banished too? or is he outside the radius? A smokestick fills 10-foot cube with smoke, and Malack and the imp were at the edge of the smoke. Figure out the dimensions of the corridor, and we can figure out how far they were from the point of impact. Based on various people standing against the wall, I estimate each block to be a little over 3 feet high. We also see in several strips that the wall is at least 3 full blocks high. (The bottom row of blocks disappears into the floor; we don’t see the ceiling, but the upper row is also cut off in every panel I’ve checked.) We also see members of the LG standing 3 abreast in the corridor; in fighting formation, they would presumably each be occupying a five-foot space, but they’re bunched up. Each probably occupies a little over 3 feet. So, minimum dimensions would be…a 10’ x 10’ corridor. Go figure. 🙂 That means the smoke should only extend at most 5 feet to either side of Tarquin. Malack was just outside of it, so he was more than 5 feet away, but probably less than 10. Since Durkon was right in front of Tarquin, that’s well within range of the Holy Word…assuming that its effects aren’t blocked by the door. The spell description says that non-good creatures can be affected even if they can’t hear the Word, but it doesn’t specify whether the spell effect requires line of sight, or is subject to barrier rules (like 1 inch of common metal or a thin sheet of lead blocking detection magic). My guess is that Malack and Qarr are protected by the door, but don’t hold me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4477 "2012-07-26T19:15:24Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > reading this > > would seem to indicate if hes within 40ft hes gone (ETA: ) Holy word’s area of effect is “Nongood creatures in a 40-ft.-radius spread centered on you.” Look at the rules for a spread: > [@srd](#): > > Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can’t see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect. Note that a line of effect is a straight, unblocked line. The text isn’t entirely clear, but the bit about counting around walls, not through them, suggests that the spell can’t go through the wall. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4478 "2012-07-26T20:02:28Z")
Assuming he can get past that steel door, could Malack undeafen/unblind whoever gets affected by the Holy Word casting? Edit: hmm, with Sabine banished, the group no longer has a trap detector. That might be handy (for the good guys). ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4479 "2012-07-26T20:30:40Z")
One more thing just occurred to me: are the mummies under Malack’s mental control, much like Freshmouth was under V’s? Is he the only one that can give them orders? ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4480 "2012-07-26T20:35:50Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Assuming he can get past that steel door, could Malack undeafen/unblind whoever gets affected by the Holy Word casting? > > Edit: hmm, with Sabine banished, the group no longer has a trap detector. That might be handy (for the good guys). Who’s to say Haley successfully detected all the traps too? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/4481 "2012-07-26T20:37:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > (ETA: ) Holy word’s area of effect is “Nongood creatures in a 40-ft.-radius spread centered on you.” > > Look at the rules for a spread: > > Note that a line of effect is a straight, unblocked line. > > The text isn’t entirely clear, but the bit about counting around walls, not through them, suggests that the spell can’t go through the wall. For the purpose of line of effect, a line can be traced through a given 5’\*5’ area if that area has a 1 square foot hole in it (out of 25). That wall was solid. No gaps visible. Consequently I’d say the imp was out of the are of effect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=223) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=225)