# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/461 "2010-02-01T17:01:52Z")
I think it’s been pretty clearly shown that, despite having noble intentions, Redcloak is fundamentally an evil guy. A couple examples: [It’s All Too Easy](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html) and [It’s](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html) Battlicious! He _does_ have some “good” points-- he cares for his family, and he’s concerned about goblins as a group. But one doesn’t have to be unrelievedly evil to be Evil, just as one doesn’t have to be unrelievedly good to be Good. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/462 "2010-02-01T17:06:33Z")
The really tragic thing about Redcloak is just how close he came to being good. Had he seen a peaceful way to put his people on an equal footing with the PC races, he would have much preferred that, and in fact, for a while he was almost managing to pull it off. Really, you need to get _Start of Darkness_. It provides tremendous insight into the characters of Redcloak and Xykon (and to a lesser extent the Monster in the Dark), and to the world they live in. Plus also tremendous insight into several characters who don’t even appear in the online strip. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/463 "2010-02-01T17:10:31Z")
I really need to stop being cheap and get SoD and Origin of the PCs. I’m missing so much backstory, despite having read this damn strip since about the middle of Book 2. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/464 "2010-02-01T17:48:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Really, you need to get Start of Darkness. It provides tremendous insight into the characters of Redcloak and Xykon (and to a lesser extent the Monster in the Dark), and to the world they live in. It also changes the way you look at the Sapphire Guard. Seriously, anyone who reads the webcomic needs to read _The Start of Darkness_. It’s like another whole half of the story. (_The Origin of PC’s_ is optional. It’s a good book but you’re not going to get any major revelations in it at this point.) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/465 "2010-02-01T18:48:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > _The Origin of PC’s_ is optional. It’s a good book but you’re not going to get any major revelations in it at this point. On the other hand, the order’s first fight as a team is one of the funniest moments in the entire strip. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/466 "2010-02-02T00:32:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see it. For the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. This look like an official announcement not an administrative matter. > > I’m guessing Redloak will be in the middle of proclaiming the founding of Goblinopolis. I hear the Oracle’s hiring. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/467 "2010-02-02T00:49:24Z")
> [@](#): > > On the other hand, the order’s first fight as a team is one of the funniest moments in the entire strip. _Origin of PCs_ is much more in line with the strip’s gag-a-day, joking origins, so while it is funny, you’re not really missing much if you don’t read it, but _Start of Darkness_ is absolutely a serious story. There’s still some humor in it, but it’s incidental, not the reason for the story’s existence. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/468 "2010-02-02T12:07:44Z")
Incidentally… Am I the only one who, when reading Redcloak’s speech, at the point where he says _ **"We stand on the precipice of a new Golden Age of goblin civilization"** _, expected him to follow with _ **"…and we are taking a big step forward!"** _? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/469 "2010-02-02T14:47:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Incidentally… Am I the only one who, when reading Redcloak’s speech, at the point where he says “We stand on the precipice of a new Golden Age of goblin civilization”, expected him to follow with “…and we are taking a big step forward!”? I think Burlew intended his ‘standing on a precipe’ line as foreshadowing. Because the other half of my prediction was that Xykon is going to make an appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/470 "2010-02-02T15:51:15Z")
One of my favorite strips is Redcloak’s “conversion”, when he stops seeing the hobgoblins as cannon fodder. [It happened after one saved his life](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html): > [@](#): > > Retreating? No. To sound the retreat now would further dishonor the sacrifice of every hobgoblin that has died here. I may not be able to change the fact that I ordered them to their deaths, but I can damn well make certain they weren’t in vain. > > Order every hobgoblin, zombie, ghoul, or whatever else we have to charge that breach in the wall, and not to stop until they can feel the ocean spray on their faces. We’re going to win this war NOW. Love that next-to-last line. That’s some good war speechin’ right there. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/471 "2010-02-12T08:33:23Z")
[703 up!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0703.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/472 "2010-02-12T09:15:14Z")
So, what, they found the phylactery? ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/473 "2010-02-12T10:05:50Z")
I’m confused about the last panel. Why did cleaning up the spill keep Hobgoblin Cleric #2 from power and glory? Also, they went for long names in his family, didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/474 "2010-02-12T10:32:48Z")
It’s not cleaning up the spill that did it, it’s her failure to give him a proper name. Only people with actual names get to be important in OOTSverse. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/475 "2010-02-12T13:18:47Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > It’s not cleaning up the spill that did it, it’s her failure to give him a proper name. Only people with actual names get to be important in OOTSverse. At least his brother survived. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/476 "2010-02-12T13:19:43Z")
And yes, I immediately went to strip 433 and looked at panel 3. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/477 "2010-02-12T13:44:46Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > It’s not cleaning up the spill that did it, it’s her failure to give him a proper name. Only people with actual names get to be important in OOTSverse. Ah! Thanks, that makes sense! > [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > At least his brother survived. Well, no. Look at his sad saga, from strip 433 panel 3 to strip 433 panel 6. An epic if extremely abbreviated tale. > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > And yes, I immediately went to strip 433 and looked at panel 3. Really? Gosh, not me. _clears throat self-consciously_ ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/478 "2010-02-12T14:46:53Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > And yes, I immediately went to strip 433 and looked at panel 3. Is there any chance that there is someone out there who _didn’t_? Hmmm…I don’t have any of the web-based books. Do they keep the strip numbers intact, or is Burlew going to have to edit that dialog to change “Strip” to “Page” when the next book comes along? ---
**Author:** ![Spectralist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Spectralist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectralist)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/479 "2010-02-12T14:51:53Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Is there any chance that there is someone out there who _didn’t_? I considered it but laziness got the better of me. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/480 "2010-02-12T15:14:41Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Is there any chance that there is someone out there who _didn’t_? > > Hmmm…I don’t have any of the web-based books. Do they keep the strip numbers intact, or is Burlew going to have to edit that dialog to change “Strip” to “Page” when the next book comes along? They keep the strip numbers (and titles) intact; in fact, there are no page numbers, just strip numbers, in my books. (The Prequel books were different, having no strip numbers; I can’t remember if they had page numbers or not, but I don’t recall there being any.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=25)