# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 251
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5002 "2013-02-26T21:24:33Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > [872](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0872.html) > > Digging the update rate. Take that, Mr. Glass! In regards to the last panel, is Durkon’s Mass Death Ward most likely still in effect? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5003 "2013-02-26T21:29:59Z")
I’m going to predict right here that Durkon is going to get turned by Malack. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5004 "2013-02-26T23:33:54Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > In regards to the last panel, is Durkon’s Mass Death Ward most likely still in effect? I should think so. Talking is a free action…though that much talking might be stretching the point. Regardless, the duration should be sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5005 "2013-02-27T01:34:12Z")
Death Ward’s duration is ten times longer than Hold Person’s, so it would have to be. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5006 "2013-02-27T02:24:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m going to predict right here that Durkon is going to get turned by Malack. I believe you may well be correct. Afterwards, do you think Malack will continue the conversion of our little furry footed friend? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5007 "2013-02-27T07:54:08Z")
Durkon’s high level with plenty of HP, and Malack’s Energy Drain won’t work. Plus Durkon, being a dwarf, has a high CON stat. So it’s going to take a fair time for Malack to down him. Plus there’s Death’s Little Helper behind Malack getting a saving throw every round. Hmm… Belkar dies saving Durkon?! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5008 "2013-02-27T08:24:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Plus there’s Death’s Little Helper behind Malack getting a saving throw every round. > > Hmm… Belkar dies saving Durkon?! Or Belkar wakes up and says “Wait…you were going to turn me into a vampire? Sign me up!!” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5009 "2013-02-27T09:02:59Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Plus there’s Death’s Little Helper behind Malack getting a saving throw every round. > > Hmm… Belkar dies saving Durkon?! Belkar is useless against a Vampire. Vampires have Damage Reduction, which means his attacks will cause no damage (unless he acquired a silver dagger offscreen and I doubt that happened). The most he could do is attempt to grapple Malack and prevent him from casting spells. Probably wouldn’t work. Belkar might like being a Vampire, if he were independent. But that’s not what Malack was intending for him. As far as the update rate, we may be getting the week’s worth of strips that was promised in the Kickstarter campaign. That is, if Rich’s thumb holds up. If it doesn’t, he’ll stop and we’ll get it later on. This is Word of Giant, posted to the Kickstarter thread on the OotS message board. So expect daily updates for at least a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5010 "2013-02-27T10:18:52Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Belkar is useless against a Vampire. Vampires have Damage Reduction, which means his attacks will cause no damage (unless he acquired a silver dagger offscreen and I doubt that happened). The most he could do is attempt to grapple Malack and prevent him from casting spells. Probably wouldn’t work. But he would give Durkon time to do something rather nasty to Malack. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5011 "2013-02-27T11:54:20Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Vampires have Damage Reduction, which means his attacks will cause no damage (unless he acquired a silver dagger offscreen and I doubt that happened). No, it means his attacks will cause _less_ damage - 10 points less to be precise. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5012 "2013-02-27T13:07:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m going to predict right here that Durkon is going to get turned by Malack. Upon thought, that wouldn’t be too surprising\* and would be a neat plot twist. Not only does it turn Durkon into something he hates, it would be a chance for some character development in the Order member who’s had the least of it. - It’s the kind of plot twist/mood whiplash Burlew likes - you thought it would be Belkar who gets vampired? Nope, it’s Durkon! ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5013 "2013-02-27T14:02:53Z")
Durkon becoming a vampire would also be an interesting development with respect to the Oracle’s prediction that he would return his homeland posthumously. Maybe this is how Durkon is going to cause all that destruction when he comes home, as was foretold in Durkon’s origin story. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5014 "2013-02-27T15:22:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m going to predict right here that Durkon is going to get turned by Malack. I was going to call “Bullshit!” on this until I started thinking about it. The more I cogitate, the more likely it seems to be what will happen. I suppose we’ll find out soon enough, if the daily updates keep happening. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5015 "2013-02-27T15:26:48Z")
I don’t have much to add except that I spent the last day or two reading “Durkon will be turned by Malack” as the ability of evil clerics to turn good aligned clerics as undead and thinking “That’s be something but hardly a huge event and Malack can’t out-level Durkon by THAT much…” Of course, I haven’t played D&D since AD&D 1st ed. I don’t know if that ability even holds true any longer. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5016 "2013-02-27T16:41:28Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I don’t have much to add except that I spent the last day or two reading “Durkon will be turned by Malack” as the ability of evil clerics to turn good aligned clerics as undead and thinking \*\*“That’s be something but hardly a huge event and Malack can’t out-level Durkon by THAT much…” \*\* > > Of course, I haven’t played D&D since AD&D 1st ed. I don’t know if that ability even holds true any longer. Yeah, I understand there have been a few changes in the rules since 1st ed. Apparently there have been some changes in the conventions for grammar and sentence structure. Could you give us that bolded sentence again, maybe in something not earlier than 3rd edition? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5017 "2013-02-27T16:49:50Z")
My mangled syntax aside, I’m not sure if you’re serious so I’ll play it straight. Back in the day, powerful clerics could turn lesser clerics as they would undead (I don’t know that destroying them via this power was an option). I have no idea if this power holds true these days. I kept reading “Malack turns Durkon” as “Malack turns Durkon as he would a lesser undead” (i.e., makes him flee via the power of Malack’s faith and holy symbol) My brain kept saying “That’s not such a big deal since Durkon would just come back after the effect wore off and I don’t think the level disparity between the two is enough to give Malack that power over Durkon anyway. Why do people keep talking about this?” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5018 "2013-02-27T17:08:49Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > My brain kept saying “That’s not such a big deal since Durkon would just come back after the effect wore off and I don’t think the level disparity between the two is enough to give Malack that power over Durkon anyway. Why do people keep talking about this?” 😛 IIRC, relative levels had nothing to do with it. Clerics and paladins were turned as “Special”, which included things like liches and vampires. So all Malack need be (if we were following 1Ed rules) is high enough level to turn Special. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5019 "2013-02-27T17:13:37Z")
Paladins could be turned, but not clerics. Sadly I lent my 1st Ed DMG out years ago… In 2nd Ed, evil priests could turn paladins (not clerics) as if (a) paladins were undead with hit dice equal to their level and (b) the evil priest were three levels lower. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5020 "2013-02-27T19:35:58Z")
[873](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0873.html). Looks like we’re on the one-a-day train. EDIT: Looks like M can’t cast higher than 6th level spells. I like the idea that he’s a [Vampire Lord](http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) (perma-flying spell, Lawful alignments allowed) and that he’s not that high level a Cleric, but that his racial adjustment and template bring him back up towards Tarquin’s level. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5021 "2013-02-27T19:41:15Z")
Durkon can be a sneaky sumbitch sometimes. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=250) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=252)