# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 255
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5082 "2013-02-28T21:08:32Z")
Wouldn’t [Pro v. Evil](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm) (a 1st level spell) shut down the Dominate attempts? Granted, you’d have to buff before Malack Gazed at them, so if I’m reading the description right, it wouldn’t do a thing to help Belkar. (Oh, where have you gone, [Chaotic Commands](http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg/character/spells/priest/priestspell.asp?lvl_id=5&file_name=ChaoticCommands.htm&title=Chaotic+Commands)? A party turns its lonely eyes to you…) But he could send the cat (Are cats strong-willed? All the ones I’ve ever know have been…) and cast it on whoever the cat brought before Malack could Gaze. Especially since the gaze has a 30’ limit. Really though, if he had the chance, Durkon should have immediately blasted Malack with whatever could target Gaseous Form. Then Malack would have been obligated to immediately run to his coffin, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. And then, as one poster mentioned at the forums, if Malack got caught outside the pyramid in the swirling winds within Windy Canyon, and was unable to coalesce and get to his coffin in time, it’d be a hilariously ignominious demise. Much funnier than the cat back-slashing him, IMHO. Thanks for the AoO help. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5083 "2013-02-28T21:43:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You can, indeed, discharge a touch spell as part of an attack of opportunity. What you can not do, is _cast_ a touch spell as part of an attack of opportunity. As always in D&D rules tiffs, I think it hinges on insignificant words :). I agree Durkon can’t use a spell in this case, but you said “you can’t use a spell for one under any circumstance.” If by “use” you mean “cast,” you’re correct; but if by “use” you mean “make use of,” you’re incorrect. Fair enough? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5084 "2013-02-28T21:54:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Fair enough? Never! FYI, [new strip.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5085 "2013-02-28T22:05:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > FYI, [new strip.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) What do you think we’ve been discussing the past nine posts? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5086 "2013-02-28T22:08:43Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > What do you think we’ve been discussing the past nine posts? 🙂 Mostly rule minutia, by my count. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5087 "2013-02-28T22:28:57Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > What do you think we’ve been discussing the past nine posts? 🙂 I thought we were discussing the previous comic, but my comments apply to both: Durkon couldn’t use a spell for an AoO in the previous one, and it wouldn’t be a useful tactic in the current one, but it’s theoretically possible to load up a spell and use it as an AoO under weird circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5088 "2013-02-28T22:41:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In this case, Durkon doesn’t have an undischarged touch spell ready, so if Malack tries to jump him right now, Durkon’s only option is to whack him with his hammer. Well, that’s his only AoO option. He does have another option for dealing with melee, however. From reading the vampire info yet again: they can be repelled by a strongly presented holy symbol or mirror. This is separate and distinct from turning, and apparently does not require a roll of any kind. The effect is interesting. > [@SRD](#): > > A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Just by holding up his holy symbol, Durkon can prevent Malack from using any melee or touch attacks against him. If he stands next to Belkar, he can keep Malack from coming within 5 feet of either of them. I wonder if an Owl’s Wisdom would be enough for Belkar to throw off Malack’s domination? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5089 "2013-03-01T01:35:30Z")
If V were to suddenly show up, would she be effective vs a vampire/cleric? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5090 "2013-03-01T03:45:44Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > If V were to suddenly show up, would she be effective vs a vampire/cleric? Wizards are effective against just about everything, so yes he would. Assuming he’s gotten over his crippling ennui. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5091 "2013-03-01T06:41:14Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Wizards are effective against just about everything, so yes he would. Assuming he’s gotten over his crippling ennui. Thanks! I don’t fear that happening immediately, because, you know, plot. But I’ve read all 5000+ posts of this thread and it’s still sometimes pretty subtle what is effective against what and when and whom in this weird rules-based world. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5092 "2013-03-01T10:36:45Z")
I love Dwarven theology. It exists at the intersection of Nordic and Rabbinical. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5093 "2013-03-01T12:34:55Z")
Please could someone give a summary in a spoiler box of the plot of the Belkar prequel strip? I wasn’t a backer and I’m content with not _seeing_ the strip, but I’d still like to know what happened. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5094 "2013-03-01T13:41:31Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Please could someone give a summary in a spoiler box of the plot of the Belkar prequel strip? I wasn’t a backer and I’m content with not _seeing_ the strip, but I’d still like to know what happened. Belkar kills things for money. Seriously, that strip was for people that paid up. I’m sure there will be a way to buy it in the future ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5095 "2013-03-01T17:20:12Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Belkar kills things for money. Seriously, that strip was for people that paid up. I’m sure there will be a way to buy it in the future Well, more accurately:Belkar finds out that he can **get paid** for killing things. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5096 "2013-03-01T17:26:06Z")
> [@thinksnow](#): > > Well, more accurately:Belkar finds out that he can **get paid** for killing things. …and that relatively few stores move. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5097 "2013-03-01T20:18:33Z")
[875.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0875.html) I can quit reading this strip anytime I want to… [SPOILER]All right! All right! Malack is Evil. I agree with you! That said, I like the 200 years of vampire revelation: it clues us in that Res is off the table, and I think it sets us up for Malack to talk about the Scribble and the Gates.[/SPOILER] ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5098 "2013-03-01T20:21:05Z")
These daily updates are killing me. I have to read them a panel at a time on my phone because Giant is blocked from work and I can’t wait until I get home to read them! ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5099 "2013-03-01T20:31:00Z")
I’m a hopeless rules nerd, so some comments. Malack is, so I understand, a Lizardfolk. Lizardfolk have two racial Hit Dice. These are not overwritten by Malack’s cleric levels - only 1HD monsters replace their racial die with class HD. The saving throw of a supernatural ability is ½ _charater_ level, which counts hit dice from all classes and for race - so the save throw DC is probably 17 + Cha mod, assuming Malack has 13 cleric levels. Any of the first level Protection spells will render a vampiric domination for one minute per (class) level of the caster. Malack’s Dominate lasts for twelve days. Finally, Owl’s Wisdom will not automatically break the Hold Person, but it will give the affected creature +2 to save against the spell. Remove Paralysis is a _far_ better spell for that purpose, as it works with no die roll required unless you’re trying to release multiple victims. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5100 "2013-03-01T20:33:46Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > [875.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0875.html) > > I can quit reading this strip anytime I want to… > > [SPOILER]All right! All right! Malack is Evil. I agree with you! > > That said, I like the 200 years of vampire revelation: it clues us in that Res is off the table, and I think it sets us up for Malack to talk about the Scribble and the Gates.[/SPOILER] [Nazi Lizard People!](http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=6524.0) ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5101 "2013-03-01T21:00:59Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > …The saving throw of a supernatural ability is ½ _charater_ level, which counts hit dice from all classes and for race - so the save throw DC is probably 17 + Cha mod, assuming Malack has 13 cleric levels. > > Any of the first level Protection spells will render a vampiric domination for one minute per (class) level of the caster. Malack’s Dominate lasts for twelve days. > > Finally, Owl’s Wisdom will not automatically break the Hold Person, but it will give the affected creature +2 to save against the spell. Remove Paralysis is a _far_ better spell for that purpose, as it works with no die roll required unless you’re trying to release multiple victims. Well, the Pro/Evil isn’t a permanent solution. Hopefully in the time that an Extended/Maximized spell allows, they can knock Malack down to zero and force him to go Gaseous. Belkar’s still going to be Dominated though, and that can’t be dispelled, since the gaze is a supernatural ability, as you note. That is going to be a gigantic PITA as long as Malack is brea…ticking. I like the idea of Plane Shifting Belkar somewhere else for the duration of the Domination, if they can’t kill Malack. I don’t think Durkon can knock Malack out by himself, which is why I’m surprised he didn’t carry Belkar back to the rest of the Order. Is there a magic item that can block the Domination for more than the piddly duration Pro/Evil provides? Could you Plane Shift Malack to the Positive Energy Plane to kill him, a la how Z exiled V? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=254) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=256)