# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 265
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5282 "2013-03-06T22:31:36Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Referenced as recently as [854](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html). > > Malack tries to kill Nale in [811](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html), [812](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0812.html) then in [820](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0819.html) through 822 (where Malack also asks to be the one to fight Durkon). Hookay, those all mention that Nale killed Malack’s “children” (whom I presume were vampires). It doesn’t say why, or when. Nor how Durkon knows (in 854) that Malack hated Nale. I’ll dig around myself, though. It’ll give me the excuse to peruse more OOTS. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5283 "2013-03-06T22:36:23Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Hookay, those all mention that Nale killed Malack’s “children” (whom I presume were vampires). It doesn’t say why, or when. No, but we have to assume that Nale knows about the connection between the vampires he killed at some point and Malack. In the very first meeting between them (the first strip that got linked up above) Nale makes a flip remark, “How’s the family?” He doesn’t seem very surprised that Malack immediately attacks him. Therefore he has to know WHY Malack attacked him and that it has something to do with his family. And since Malack has been vamped for 200 years, it had to be his vampire children that Nale killed, since any natural children Malack had should be dead of old age by the time Nale was even born. Durkon knew because he was there when Malack mistook Elan for Nale. Let me do some digging myself to find that one. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5284 "2013-03-06T23:10:41Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Durkon knew because he was there when Malack mistook Elan for Nale. Let me do some digging myself to find that one. Actually, I’m not sure what you’re referencing. Durkon isn’t even IN 854. And Durkon wasn’t in the throne room when Elan was brought before Malack and the Empress, but he WAS right there when Malack attacked Nale during the Great Gladiator Escape, and the subject was brought up. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5285 "2013-03-06T23:17:47Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Actually, I’m not sure what you’re referencing. Durkon isn’t even IN 854. And Durkon wasn’t in the throne room when Elan was brought before Malack and the Empress, but he WAS right there when Malack attacked Nale during the Great Gladiator Escape, and the subject was brought up. Sorry ! My mistake! strip [810](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5286 "2013-03-06T23:40:07Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Sorry ! My mistake! > > strip [810](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html) Hmmm. Don’t know for sure. I can fan-wank that Elan and Haley told him about the mixup and why Malack wanted Nale captured, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5287 "2013-03-06T23:47:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Miller** : > > My only problem with that is that this would be the first time that OotS has ever used the “Our X are different” trope,… You mean, aside from the medium-sized goblins and sylph, and the succubus who drains with a claw instead of a kiss and can plane-shift, and the imp with a ton of abilities D&D imps don’t have, and the colossal Pit Fiend, and heck, even the blue-haired humans. On another note, Rich has _not_ ever said that Monster-San comes from a sourcebook. What he said is that he didn’t make him up himself, but the original source could well still be something unconnected to D&D. The hypothesis I’m most fond of is that he’s the son of Godzilla. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5288 "2013-03-07T01:41:34Z")
Okay, but other than that, what have the Romans done for us? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5289 "2013-03-07T02:03:43Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I wonder if Malack is a [half-dragon](http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Half-Dragon) boa constrictor? Dragons really are the sluts of the D&D world. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5290 "2013-03-07T02:09:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Dragons really are the sluts of the D&D world. Seriously. You give your consent to have a template made out of you and suddenly there are 100,000 kids you never knew you had running around the multiverse… ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5291 "2013-03-07T02:13:45Z")
What’s going on with Durkon’s soul at this point? Is it out of his now-vampired body and going up to Lawful Good mountain, or is it still in his body? Will it come back if Malack really does release him from his thrall, since then “you will feel more like yourself”? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5292 "2013-03-07T02:32:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Dragons really are the sluts of the D&D world. Them and humans. To quote some webcomic I can’t find: > [@](#): > > Human: Hey elf, you look like a girl. > Elf: To a human, everything must look like a girl. > Human: What? > Elf: Half-orcs, half-ogres… > Human: … shut up. > Dwarf: Half-dragons, half-kobolds. > Human: I said shut up! > Elf: … > Dwarf: … > Human: … > Elf: Centaurs. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5293 "2013-03-07T12:31:30Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Nale knows. He killed Malack’s “children”, remember? But does Nale know that _he killed Malack’s children_? That is, is he aware that Malack holds him responsible for the deaths of characters that Malack regarded as “his children”, as opposed to slaying some random vampires somewhere at some time on some quest? We have only Malack’s perspective to attest to this. And I thin it’s safe to say that Malak’s view of the world is, uh, skewed from the norm? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5294 "2013-03-07T13:24:25Z")
He certainly knows about Malack’s [family](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5295 "2013-03-07T15:09:19Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > But does Nale know that _he killed Malack’s children_? That is, is he aware that Malack holds him responsible for the deaths of characters that Malack regarded as “his children”, as opposed to slaying some random vampires somewhere at some time on some quest? Even disregarding Nale “How’s the family?” quip (which is evidence enough), in 820-822 they are openly discussing the issue in front of Nale, who doesn’t seem confused or object to the fact that Malack has a legitimate grudge against him. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5296 "2013-03-07T17:34:29Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > What’s going on with Durkon’s soul at this point? Is it out of his now-vampired body and going up to Lawful Good mountain, or is it still in his body? Will it come back if Malack really does release him from his thrall, since then “you will feel more like yourself”? In [652](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html) Xykon lists becoming a vampire as one way to avoid having your soul go to the afterlife. This implies that in the OOTS world, the soul of someone who is made into a vampire stays with the body. Of course, this assumes that Xykon knows what he’s talking about here. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5297 "2013-03-13T09:52:21Z")
[880 Getting the Message](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0880.html) We return to the main party finally, Roy’s face in the final panel! ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5298 "2013-03-13T11:32:50Z")
I would say that Roy went (more or less) through the [Five Stages of Grief](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model) in quick succession: Denial, Anger… Bargaining, well, there is no bargaining possible here, I would say… and finally, Depression and Acceptance combined. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5299 "2013-03-13T13:00:34Z")
Interesting to note that Belkar _admitted_ to Roy that he was faking being part of the team. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5300 "2013-03-13T14:19:27Z")
That made my daughter and me so sad. ☹ However, we did enjoy Mr. Scruffy’s expressions. He goes to protect Belkar when Roy is mad at him, he looks angry at Roy when Belkar is trying to get them to believe him … good stuff. And the whole thing shows how even just by faking being a part of the team, Belkar can’t help but have real character growth. **AndrewL** : excellent point, I’d forgotten about that. So the implication there is that Durkon’s soul is still with his now-vampiric body. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5301 "2013-03-13T14:25:24Z")
Belkar’s cat: Are his eyes each a different color? (Like Tsukiko?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=264) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=266)