# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 275
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5482 "2013-04-16T15:14:43Z")
So… your F7/T7/B1 is fighting level 15 enemies (along side your party) with your F7 THAC0 and saves? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5483 "2013-04-16T15:35:15Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > So… your F7/T7/B1 is fighting level 15 enemies (along side your party) with your F7 THAC0 and saves? With your F7 THAC0, yes. It says you always use the most advantageous save tables. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5484 "2013-04-16T17:17:06Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > With your F7 THAC0, yes. It says you always use the most advantageous save tables. Which, compared to the [dedicated single class] level 15 party members, is going to be weaker, no? It sounds like you are deliberately gimping yourself… I guess that’s what seperates the men [“true roleplayers”] from the boys [the min/maxers]. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5485 "2013-04-16T18:16:34Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > So… your F7/T7/B1 is fighting level 15 enemies [..] No. 1E AD&D experience doesn’t work that way, and in particular 1E AD&D multiclassing doesn’t work like 3E multiclassing (e.g. it makes no sense to add up your total levels in all classes). For example, a PC with 250,001 xp could be… - a 10th level magic-user - a 9th level cleric - a 9th level fighter - an 11th level thief - an 8th level monk (boo) - a 11th level druid - a 5th level fighter/6th level thief/12th level bard - a 7th level fighter/7th level cleric/7th level magic-user - etc. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5486 "2013-04-16T18:25:43Z")
Don’t forget that the Bardic Knowledge skill is immensely powerful. Basically, the Bard can roll on this skill that he may, by chance, happen to have learned some obscure fact during his travels. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5487 "2013-04-16T18:40:34Z")
Reviewing this last page, now I feel bad for all the casual readers who got caught in the weeds 😃 To make it worse, 1st ed. bards have essentially to do with the current OOTS plot aside from remembering that they were a bit complicated and you could certainly make an argument for them being underpowered (especially in a hack & slash campaign where the most "lore"you’ll be remembering is identifying magical loot). ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5488 "2013-04-16T19:24:57Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > So… your F7/T7/B1 is fighting level 15 enemies (along side your party) with your F7 THAC0 and saves? I’m sure I explained this earlier. Your F7/T8/B9 is fighting, roughly, level 9 enemies. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5489 "2013-04-16T19:57:40Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > No. 1E AD&D experience doesn’t work that way, and in particular 1E AD&D multiclassing doesn’t work like 3E multiclassing (e.g. it makes no sense to add up your total levels in all classes). > > For example, a PC with 250,001 xp could be… > > - a 10th level magic-user > - a 9th level cleric > - a 9th level fighter > - an 11th level thief > - an 8th level monk (boo) > - a 11th level druid > - a 5th level fighter/6th level thief/12th level bard > - a 7th level fighter/7th level cleric/7th level magic-user > - etc. :smack: _That’s_ what I’m forgetting! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5490 "2013-04-17T03:49:48Z")
New strip (#884) [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0884.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0884.html) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5491 "2013-04-17T03:59:02Z")
Warning - spoiler for the current strip, don’t open box til you have read it. Just remind me. How does Blackwing know about the imps connection to the three fiends? please spoiler box your answers. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5492 "2013-04-17T04:10:50Z")
Blackwing deduced it from the earlier battle with the LG in the city. [#792](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5493 "2013-04-17T04:12:06Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Warning - spoiler for the current strip, don’t open box til you have read it. > > Just remind me. How does Blackwing know about the imps connection to the three fiends? > > please spoiler box your answers. He figured it out [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html). ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5494 "2013-04-17T07:32:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The other joke is that Nale apparently did it because his dad told him that bards are underpowered – except, as Nale learned years later, Tarquin actually meant that bards should be ruling the world, since expert storytellers could easily follow the sly conqueror’s example by masterfully playing around with narrative tropes. If he weren’t Lawful, I’d suspect Tarquin of being a Bard. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5495 "2013-04-17T12:30:54Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > If he weren’t Lawful, I’d suspect Tarquin of being a Bard. Despite being a sword-and-axe guy who never uses bardic music or casts any spells, it’s _almost_ plausible that he’s just all about the trope-savvy storytelling. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5496 "2013-04-17T17:46:23Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > If he weren’t Lawful, I’d suspect Tarquin of being a Bard. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Despite being a sword-and-axe guy who never uses bardic music or casts any spells, it’s _almost_ plausible that he’s just all about the trope-savvy storytelling. 😉 Lots of skill points in cross-class lore skills? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5497 "2013-04-17T21:43:39Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > If he weren’t Lawful, I’d suspect Tarquin of being a Bard. 😕 I thought being Lore-ful was what being a Bard is all about. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5498 "2013-04-17T22:33:44Z")
Qarr’s not very good at this whole evil thing. Maybe he should take a couple levels in bard. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5499 "2013-04-17T22:39:52Z")
Personally, I suspect that in the Stickverse, there’s a Charisma-based “genre-savvy” skill. Elan and Tarquin both have high Charisma and maxed-out ranks, and hence are amongst the most genre-savvy beings in the world. Xykon has no ranks, or maybe just one if it’s trained-only, but his monstrously high Cha bonus means that even his untrained checks are still quite good. Haley has a decent Cha (though not as high as Elan’s), and she’s been putting a few points in since she started dating Elan, so she has a bit of genre savvy, but not nearly as much as Elan does. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5500 "2013-04-18T02:59:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Haley has a decent Cha (though not as high as Elan’s), and she’s been putting a few points in since she started dating Elan, so she has a bit of genre savvy, but not nearly as much as Elan does. Hey, she can crawl out of the strip and [visit other parts of the web site](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0649.html), she must be pretty genre-savvy… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5501 "2013-04-18T03:42:49Z")
Though, note that she only did that on Elan’s prompting. And I’m not quite sure that’s the same thing, either: Knowing it’s possible is one thing, but actually doing it is another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=274) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=276)