# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/541 "2010-03-23T20:26:47Z")
How is Rich going to introduce Redcloak’s back-story for people who haven’t read SoD? I know he said it isn’t necessary to read the prequels, but a lot of people like **clnilsen** will be scratching their heads. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/542 "2010-03-23T20:33:44Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > How is Rich going to introduce Redcloak’s back-story for people who haven’t read SoD? I know he said it isn’t necessary to read the prequels, but a lot of people like **clnilsen** will be scratching their heads. I’m not sure that he can. I’m prepared to be proven wrong, of course–Rich is a much better writer than I am–but it seems like a very difficult task. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/543 "2010-03-23T20:56:06Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > How is Rich going to introduce Redcloak’s back-story for people who haven’t read SoD? I know he said it isn’t necessary to read the prequels, but a lot of people like **clnilsen** will be scratching their heads. He’s been giving hints and references to SoD for a while now that I know I wouldn’t have gotten if people who actually had SoD hadn’t spoilered explanations for. When Redcloak first lost the eye, the mirror panel was a direct and wonderfully subtle callback to that history (since, in the mirror, it was the left eye that was missing). ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/544 "2010-03-23T21:58:07Z")
Is there a place I can read the prequels? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/545 "2010-03-23T22:05:12Z")
> [@flight](#): > > Is there a place I can read the prequels? They are both print only as I recall; you can order them online from the links on the website. They might be available in stores for all I know. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/546 "2010-03-23T22:42:53Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Specifically, a ghoul, which eats human flesh. Didn’t one of her minions drain a level from Belkar? I’m thinking wight. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/547 "2010-03-24T00:32:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They are both print only as I recall; you can order them online from the links on the website. They might be available in stores for all I know. I purchased both from my local comic shop, but have not seen them in stores like Borders or B&N. Looks like [Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=order+of+the+stick) has 'em, though. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/548 "2010-03-24T01:21:05Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I purchased both from my local comic shop, but have not seen them in stores like Borders or B&N. > > Looks like [Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=order+of+the+stick) has 'em, though. Lots of gaming shops carry them, too. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/549 "2010-03-24T01:31:05Z")
> [@](#): > > In Start of DarknessRedcloak’s deceased brother, who was co-leader of the goblins with Redcloak, had lost his left eye. It’s just a poke in a tender place for Redcloak courtesy of Xykon. [spoiler]There’s a little more to it than that. Xykon called Redcloak’s brother Right-Eye so calling Redcloak Wrong-Eye is a play off that. A deeper level is that both brothers had real names but Xykon didn’t want to have to remember them so he called them Redcloak and Right-Eye for their most obvious attributes. Thereby showing that Xykon doesn’t give a damn about even his top minions. Finally, Xykon eventually forced Redcloak to kill his brother in order to ensure Redcloak’s loyalty. Then he taunted Redcloak about it, saying that Right-Eye had been the better brother and Redcloak was the weak one.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/550 "2010-03-24T02:13:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Lots of gaming shops carry them, too. My local comic shop _is_ my gaming shop. I’d quite forgotten they could be separate things. 🙂 Actually, I’m surprised there _are_ some still separate; I’d think it easier to maintain a going concern if you cater to multiple tiny niche markets, rather than just one. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/551 "2010-03-24T21:38:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Didn’t one of her minions drain a level from Belkar? I’m thinking wight. Many of her “babies” are wights, but this one looks different, and the method of creating a wight is different from the method for creating a ghoul. To create a ghoul, you start with a corpse, and cast Create Undead on it. To create a wight, you start with a living person, and kill them through level drain, either by casting a spell like Enervation, or from contact from another wight, after which they’ll come back as a wight. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/552 "2010-03-25T03:31:50Z")
Well. _You_ seem to be quite well-informed on the techniques of the matter. What did you say your alignment was, again? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/553 "2010-03-25T03:48:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A deeper level is that both brothers had real names but Xykon didn’t want to have to remember them so he called them Redcloak and Right-Eye for their most obvious attributes. Thereby showing that Xykon doesn’t give a damn about even his top minions. [spoiler]When they first met Xykon, they and a representative of a lizardman tribe were each trying to talk the obviously powerful sorcerer into an alliance. The lizardman started introducing himself with his acutal long complicated name… until Xykon got exasperated and blasted him. They then introduced themselves to Xykon as “Redcloak” and “Right-Eye”. Their actual goblin names remain unknown. They usually addressed each other as “brother” – significantly, Right-Eye’s dying words were “Goodbye… Redcloak”.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/554 "2010-03-25T04:06:15Z")
What the helling hell? [#709: No Scry Zone](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html) is up already! Rich is really on his game! And surprisingly touching. I’m not a big MITD fan but this was very cute. And maybe this means we’re finally going back to Team Good Guys again. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/555 "2010-03-25T04:46:59Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I’m not a big MITD fan but this was very cute. Oh, \*\*\*I \*\*\* am. Especially where his friendship with O-Chul is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/556 "2010-03-25T05:58:04Z")
It’s not only cute, it’s crucial to the plot. I have a feeling that the MITD’s ultimate allegiance will play a key role in the story’s climax, and as of now, O-Chul is the scarred, badass angel on its shoulder. Best it thinks of him as often as possible. Now, as to that ritual Tsukiko is studying… any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/557 "2010-03-25T06:25:45Z")
Ewwww! “Two Words: Magic Fingers!” ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/558 "2010-03-25T07:55:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s not only cute, it’s crucial to the plot. I have a feeling that the MITD’s ultimate allegiance will play a key role in the story’s climax, and as of now, O-Chul is the scarred, badass angel on its shoulder. Best it thinks of him as often as possible. > > Now, as to that ritual Tsukiko is studying… any ideas? Start Of Darkness spoilers [spoiler] Xykon has cast a spell on the MITD, if Redcloak ever betrays Xykon, the MITD must eat Redcloak. As for the spell, it’s a ritual to control the gates. It requires two casters, one arcane, one divine. Note that Tsukiko uses both types of magic. Redcloak has misled Xykon as to what exactly the spell does. Xykon thinks it will control the Snarl, and make it his servant. What it really does is to open the gate in the realm of the gods. The Dark One will be able to blackmail the other gods, sop that Goblins will get a better deal. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/559 "2010-03-25T08:08:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Now, as to that ritual Tsukiko is studying… any ideas? _Start of Darkness_ spoilers: [Spoiler]It most likely is the ritual mentioned in _Start of Darkness_ that requires both a divine and arcane caster to work, the one that Redcloak and his God the Dark One intend to use that will let the Dark One open a portal to the Snarl where they like; the throne room of Thor, for example. Xykon has been manipulated into thinking that the ritual will let him command the Snarl as he likes; in reality, the only control involved will be where the gate to the Snarl opens, and the one in control will be the Dark One, not Xykon. The fact that he has someone devoted only to him studying the ritual though implies that Xykon may not have been fooled as well as Redcloak thinks, though. Or maybe he just wants someone else besides Redcloak who can use it. [/Spoiler] EDIT: I see\*\* Peter Morris\*\* posted most of that before me. Posted anyway to include my speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/560 "2010-03-25T10:56:58Z")
Aw. That’s very sweet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=29)