# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 282
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5622 "2013-05-05T20:20:33Z")
I just noticed something in the art. It’s subtle, but the from the panel where Roy exclaims “it - it worked!” until the penultimate panel, there’s an increasingly purple cast to the art, which disappears in the final panel (e.g. compare Elan and Haley’s skin tone in the final panel vs the one before). Purple. Like the runes. Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5623 "2013-05-05T20:41:36Z")
It looks to me like Roy couldn’t have cut down V or anyone: 1. V doesn’t call Roy by his first name, V would have called him Master Greenhilt. 2. More importantly, Roy & Co. are not moving. Roy’s sword is still on his back, as is Haley’s bow. They are still in the same formation they were in when they walked through the door in strip #881. They must be right through the door. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5624 "2013-05-05T21:22:16Z")
1. V has no injuries. V has no angst. V has no familiar. V has no dirt on his/her clothing. 2. So, V is not in the hallway. 3. Heh: “My superior elven hearing”: that’s exactly how Roy would _think_ that V talks. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5625 "2013-05-05T21:30:02Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > Defensive casting can’t normally be interrupted. Normal spell casting can. Roy is using a special feat that lets him interrupt defensively cast spells. Not exactly. Normally casting a spell provokes an attack of opportunity–basically a free attack against a spellcaster. Casting defensively doesn’t provoke an attack. If you get hit while casting a spell, you’re really likely to lose the spell (you make a tough concentration check). Roy isn’t using a feat: he’s readying an action. Whenever Xykon casts a spell, Roy’s readied action goes off, and he’s able to attack. It’s not a free attack; on the contrary, it’s a lot weaker than his normal attack routine. But since he’s waiting to attack until Xykon casts a spell, he’s liable to fizzle Xykon’s spells. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5626 "2013-05-05T21:40:43Z")
And the relevant trope appears to be The Lotus Eater Machine: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LotusEaterMachine](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LotusEaterMachine) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5627 "2013-05-05T22:00:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Not exactly. Normally casting a spell provokes an attack of opportunity–basically a free attack against a spellcaster. Casting defensively doesn’t provoke an attack. > > If you get hit while casting a spell, you’re really likely to lose the spell (you make a tough concentration check). > > Roy isn’t using a feat: he’s readying an action. Whenever Xykon casts a spell, Roy’s readied action goes off, and he’s able to attack. It’s not a free attack; on the contrary, it’s a lot weaker than his normal attack routine. But since he’s waiting to attack until Xykon casts a spell, he’s liable to fizzle Xykon’s spells. So are you saying Xykon is _not_ casting defensively? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5628 "2013-05-05T22:11:44Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So are you saying Xykon is _not_ casting defensively? He is. Normally, casting a spell in melee gives your opponent a free attack - an attack of opportunity. But Roy’s not doing that. Instead, he’s readying an attack. When you ready an attack, you give up your normal attack to make one specific attack when a specific circumstance occurs. Usually, it’s something like, “I ready an attack to shoot the first person to come through the door.” In this case, Roy’s readying an attack for when Xykon starts casting a spell. This is a different thing than an attack of opportunity, and can’t be defended against by defensive casting. Only thing about that is, that’s a standard D&D tactic for fighting spell casters. You don’t need a feat to do it, and it’s something Xykon would have seen many times before. So I’m not sure that’s exactly what’s happening in the comic. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5629 "2013-05-05T22:18:38Z")
Or why Xykon himself thinks he’s casting defensively. Or why he thinks that matters when apparently it doesn’t? ETA: well, the illusion of Xykon thinks these things. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5630 "2013-05-05T22:25:18Z")
It is strongly implied that this isn’t something just anyone can do - Roy can do this as a result of having learned it from his grand-father when he was dead. So it seems to be implied that this is a special feat or something, and not just a standard move. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5631 "2013-05-05T23:34:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He is. Normally, casting a spell in melee gives your opponent a free attack - an attack of opportunity. But Roy’s not doing that. Instead, he’s readying an attack. When you ready an attack, you give up your normal attack to make one specific attack when a specific circumstance occurs. Usually, it’s something like, “I ready an attack to shoot the first person to come through the door.” As an aside, this was played for great comedic effect during the Order’s very first battle (against a bunch of kobolds) in **On the Origin of PCs**. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5632 "2013-05-06T02:42:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Only thing about that is, that’s a standard D&D tactic for fighting spell casters. You don’t need a feat to do it, and it’s something Xykon would have seen many times before. So I’m not sure that’s exactly what’s happening in the comic. I think what’s exactly happening is that Roy is having a fantasy. In his fantasy, the ready-an-action counter to his archnemesis not only works perfectly, it also confuses Xykon. When the fight comes (I almost said IRL, good grief), it’s probably not gonna work quite so well. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5633 "2013-05-06T05:38:15Z")
In D&D there’s a spell called [Weird](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/weird.htm) which would fit nicely. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5634 "2013-05-06T15:42:59Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So are you saying Xykon is _not_ casting defensively? > [@Miller](#): > > He is. Normally, casting a spell in melee gives your opponent a free attack - an attack of opportunity. But Roy’s not doing that. Instead, he’s readying an attack. When you ready an attack, you give up your normal attack to make one specific attack when a specific circumstance occurs. Usually, it’s something like, “I ready an attack to shoot the first person to come through the door.” In this case, Roy’s readying an attack for when Xykon starts casting a spell. This is a different thing than an attack of opportunity, and can’t be defended against by defensive casting. > > Only thing about that is, that’s a standard D&D tactic for fighting spell casters. You don’t need a feat to do it, and it’s something Xykon would have seen many times before. So I’m not sure that’s exactly what’s happening in the comic. I wonder if Roy’s feat gives him a damage bonus to damage done to interrupt spells, or a penalty to Xykon’s Concentration check to keep the spell. That might explain it; Roy’s not actually doing a crazy amount of damage (2d6+5 for the starmetal sword+8 or so from strength) compared to Xykon’s epic level skills and hit points. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5635 "2013-05-06T15:52:52Z")
Just to clarify LHoD’s post, casting defensively doesn’t prevent attacks. It only prevents Attacks of Opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5636 "2013-05-06T16:10:18Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > OK, I look that entire comic at face value until reading y’all’s reactions to it. So, um… what just happened? It was all a dream? Did Roy just kill V by mistake? Are Belkar and Scruffy really dead? > > …Oh, wait. The last panel means that the runes have been active for quite some time, and not that they suddenly activated immediately after Roy killing Xykon. That must be it. The last panel shows that Roy hasn’t even unshipped his sword, much less slain an ally with it. Also, Tirana. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5637 "2013-05-06T16:29:11Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > I wonder if Roy’s feat gives him a damage bonus to damage done to interrupt spells, or a penalty to Xykon’s Concentration check to keep the spell. That might explain it; Roy’s not actually doing a crazy amount of damage (2d6+5 for the starmetal sword+8 or so from strength) compared to Xykon’s epic level skills and hit points. I still don’t think it’s a feat. It’s a fantasy sequence. That said, if you’re a high-level fighter doing 20 points of damage on an attack (on average), you’re in trouble. Roy could easily be doing more: -Weapon Specialization and Improved Weapon Specialization adds another 4. -Holy or whatever adds another 7. -Power Attack is the unknown, but it could be adding 30 or so, if it’s a full power attack (I think; it’s been awhile since I’ve checked, but that’d be if Roy were level 15 and power attacking for -15/+30). He’d probably not do that much, given how important it is to hit, but he could probably get away with at least +10 and hit pretty reliably. So now we’re talking about 41 points of damage per hit (7 base, 8 str, 5 sword, 7 holy energy, 4 weapon specialization, 10 power attack). A 20th level lich, I believe, has on average 130 HP, plus whatever they get from the lich template. It’s not too unlikely that Roy could take that lich down in a handful of hits, especially if one of them is a critical, and extra-specially if **it’s a dream sequence brought on by magic runes**. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5638 "2013-05-06T17:15:50Z")
Did anyone else notice Belkar was alive again in the last panel? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5639 "2013-05-06T17:19:16Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Did anyone else notice Belkar was alive again in the last panel? Yes. That’s because nothing that happened in this strip actually happened. It was all a rune-induced hallucination, including Belkar’s, Mr. Scruffy’s and Xykon’s deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5640 "2013-05-06T17:27:45Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Did anyone else notice Belkar was alive again in the last panel? I feel like I just hallucinated a whole conversation about this exact question! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5641 "2013-05-06T17:58:30Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Also, Tirana. The capital of Albania? Did I miss something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=281) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=283)