# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 288
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5742 "2013-05-17T18:10:28Z")
If not for the tail, I’d think that was Jenny from the thieves guild, middle left. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5743 "2013-05-17T18:15:49Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > If not for the tail, I’d think that was Jenny from the thieves guild, middle left. I thought it was Jenny as well on first glance, but the tail proves it’s Sabine. Which just adds to the staggering implausibility and unreality of the scene. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5744 "2013-05-17T18:28:16Z")
There was a panel in the spiral comic where Tarquin forced Nale to shake hands with Elan and otherwise straighten up. (Yes, implausible.) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5745 "2013-05-17T18:44:06Z")
As far as cracks in the illusion goes, it’s interesting that Sabine, Nale and Roy have frowns instead of smiles. And possibly the flying kobold, although it’s hard to tell with that mouth. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5746 "2013-05-17T18:46:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As far as cracks in the illusion goes, it’s interesting that Sabine, Nale and Roy have frowns instead of smiles. And possibly the flying kobold, although it’s hard to tell with that mouth. I dunno; without the unibrow I take that as a neutral expression, not a frown. Like V in panel 2. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5747 "2013-05-17T18:53:04Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > It makes no sense, period, for the bride to not be addressed by name. You ever see a little kid address their friend’s mom as “[blank]'s Mom?” I’m pretty sure Elan still does that - and since this is his fantasy, everyone else does it, too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5748 "2013-05-17T18:59:38Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I dunno; without the unibrow I take that as a neutral expression, not a frown. Like V in panel 2. YMMV. Yeah, I think that’s supposed to be “solemn,” not “angry.” > [@Tom Scud](#): > > ``` > All right, I think we get the point by now. > > ``` Rule of threes. We had two idyllic fantasies - next we have one that breaks the expectation in some way. I’m guessing Belkar’s “fantasy” is going to either be something bloody and horrible, which he’ll find surprisingly unrewarding, or it will be something unexpectedly touching - in either case, the surprise at how his internal motivations and desires have altered will be the shock that breaks him out of the illusion. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5749 "2013-05-17T21:28:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You ever see a little kid address their friend’s mom as “[blank]'s Mom?” I’m pretty sure Elan still does that - and since this is his fantasy, everyone else does it, too. Well, yes, obviously that’s _why_ Malack called her “Elan’s Mother” – my point is that it’s the sort of nonsensical detail (Malack isn’t a little kid, after all) that might sow the seeds of doubt (if they’re all seeing the same illusion). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5750 "2013-05-17T22:42:07Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Well, yes, obviously that’s _why_ Malack called her “Elan’s Mother” – my point is that it’s the sort of nonsensical detail (Malack isn’t a little kid, after all) that might sow the seeds of doubt (if they’re all seeing the same illusion). So, does the top fall over or not? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5751 "2013-05-18T00:15:48Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > I thought it was Jenny as well on first glance, but the tail proves it’s Sabine. Which just adds to the staggering implausibility and unreality of the scene. Notice they’re grouped by pairs: it’s Haley and Elan, Sabine and Nale, Celia and Roy… …The Empress of Blood and Kilkil? Okay, somebody’s imagination just turned into a nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5752 "2013-05-18T02:12:39Z")
I think everyone’s just over-thinking the bit about not knowing Elan’s mother’s name. AFAIAC, Burlew is just tweaking _us_ about the fact that _we_ don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5753 "2013-05-18T06:30:46Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > I thought it was Jenny as well on first glance, but the tail proves it’s Sabine. Which just adds to the staggering implausibility and unreality of the scene. I find that much more plausible than Jenny of the thieves guild attending Tarquin’s wedding. On the western continent. As a bridesmaid. So I guess Sabine shapeshifted from her normal appearance to - tada! - her normal appearance minus the wings and red eyes. Crafty. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5754 "2013-05-18T20:43:52Z")
That’s how she looked [way back when](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5755 "2013-05-18T23:14:46Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > I thought it was Jenny as well on first glance, but the tail proves it’s Sabine. A little detail I just saw pointed out on the OOTS forum; her dress is more revealing than that of the other bridesmaids. It’s shorter and apparently backless. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5756 "2013-05-18T23:47:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A little detail I just saw pointed out on the OOTS forum; her dress is more revealing than that of the other bridesmaids. It’s shorter and apparently backless. And while Tarquin, Elan, Nale, and even Kilkil appear to be wearing regular pants, Roy is apparently wearing some kind of shorts. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5757 "2013-05-18T23:58:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A little detail I just saw pointed out on the OOTS forum; her dress is more revealing than that of the other bridesmaids. It’s shorter and apparently backless. Just like the dress Sabine wore early on, as shown in the link **ultrafilter** provided. Ha! Nice catch. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5758 "2013-05-19T00:04:29Z")
Another trivia issue: who are the wedding guests? The people on the right are on the bride’s side. So we see Durkon, Vaarsuvius, Inkyrius (probably), Banjo and Banjo’s girlfriend. So who’s the bearded man? Is it perhaps Burlew himself? On the groom’s side, we appear to have the other living members of the Linear Guild: Thog, Zz’dtri, an unidentified Kobold, Leeky Windstaff, and an unidentified Empire of Blood guard. Despite it being Tarquin’s wedding, we don’t see any of his allies other than Malack. But this could be due to it being Elan’s fantasy and he hasn’t met the others. But Elan hasn’t met Inkyrius either. Interestingly, we don’t see anyone from Azure City. If this is Elan’s fantasy, you’d expect to see Hinjo, Lien, Daigo and Kazumi, and O-Chul. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5759 "2013-05-19T00:33:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Another trivia issue: who are the wedding guests? > > The people on the right are on the bride’s side. So we see Durkon, Vaarsuvius, Inkyrius (probably), Banjo and Banjo’s girlfriend. So who’s the bearded man? Is it perhaps Burlew himself? Probably Sir Francois, who Elan worked for pre-OotS (from “On the Origin of PCs”). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5760 "2013-05-20T09:48:57Z")
[New one up!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0889.html) [spoiler]And Elan brings them out of it! Very insightful of him. I do note the interesting fact that we still haven’t seen anything of Belkar, even after the illusion breaks. I suspect revelations to follow in the next comic about what’s happened to him. Maybe he’s still stuck in the illusion still since he wasn’t at the illusionary wedding for Elan to wake up?[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5761 "2013-05-20T10:09:42Z")
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