# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 291
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5802 "2013-05-26T11:10:19Z")
I hate to say this, but Roy is being a dick to our short, little pointy guy. It’s not very LG/leader to just be assuming the worst about Belkar all the time when he’s shown real character growth over the last little while. Roy had better learn to cut him some slack and revise his own opinions before he finds himself leaning OUT of the lawful side of the game back into neutral. He’s already straddled that line (according to on-high). Seriously, if Roy keeps this up he’s going to owe Belkar some real sincere apologies one of these days. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5803 "2013-05-26T12:16:54Z")
Roy’s being a real douchebag. He was a jerk to Elan a few panels back too. And his dream was really pathetic, contrasted to Belkar’s. “Oh, Mr Greenhilt - you’re such a hero. I want to grow up to be a Fighter. Can we take a picture in front of this magnificent statue of you.” Meanwhile Belkar’s just chilling with Shojo and the cat, doing some cooking. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5804 "2013-05-26T13:09:21Z")
This isn’t a new development. Roy has always been this way. He’s a genuinely lawful good person but he’s always been too sure of himself and his beliefs. And Burlew has lampshaded this throughout the series. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5805 "2013-05-26T13:16:40Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > That wasn’t real Xykon, just part of happily ever after illusion Yes, thanks, that became apparent after 886. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5806 "2013-05-26T15:08:29Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Roy had better learn to cut him some slack and revise his own opinions before he finds himself leaning OUT of the lawful side of the game back into neutral. Seems like he’d be leaning out of the Good side to Lawful Neutral. You can be Lawful, maintaining rigid order, and still be a dick. Of course the stereotypical paladin is Lawful Good and a dick. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5807 "2013-05-26T16:47:32Z")
The image of Elan as a country singer just cracks me up every time I look at it. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5808 "2013-05-26T16:49:06Z")
Shojo seems to have 12-gods wallpaper in his dining room. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5809 "2013-05-26T17:23:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This isn’t a new development. Roy has always been this way. He’s a genuinely lawful good person but he’s always been too sure of himself and his beliefs. It’s a Lawful Good thang. Y’all wouldn’t understand. Miko does, though. ETA : well, did. ETA2 : > [@Jophiel](#): > > Of course the stereotypical paladin is Lawful Good and a dick. Class feature slash perk. U just jelly. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5810 "2013-05-26T17:35:37Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Of course the stereotypical paladin is Lawful Good and a dick. Your usual choices are either [Lawful Stupid](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulStupid) or Lawful Dick. I don’t see a TV Trope listing for Lawful Dick, but there should be one. Maybe Lawful Dick is a sub-trope of Lawful Stupid. O-Chul is a notable exception. ETA: [Tautological Templar](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TautologicalTemplar) is a pretty good candidate for Lawful Dick. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5811 "2013-05-26T17:41:30Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > The image of Elan as a country singer just cracks me up every time I look at it. Somehow I hear the voice of John Denver, but maybe it is just me. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5812 "2013-05-26T17:53:06Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > O-Chul is a notable exception.. I dunno, he’s pretty manipulative in a kill-it-with-kindness sort of way. A subset of dickery, pleasant dickery if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5813 "2013-05-26T18:56:35Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I hate to say this, but Roy is being a dick to our short, little pointy guy. In fairness to Roy, our “short, little pointy guy” is a psychotic mass murderer. If circumstances somehow forced me to hang out with Jeffrey Dahmer for extended periods of time, it would take a lot more than learning he had dreams about cute lil kitty cats before I stopped automatically assuming the worst about him. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5814 "2013-05-26T19:42:04Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Shojo seems to have 12-gods wallpaper in his dining room. My daughter pointed out that it’s the same room (or at least the same table and Twelve Gods wall-hanging) that we saw in **War and XPs** , in bonus comic 310A, “Clearing the Heir,” where Shojo and Hinjo share a meal on New Year’s Eve and discuss life, love, and all that jazz. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5815 "2013-05-26T19:42:17Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Somehow I hear the voice of John Denver, but maybe it is just me. Yeah, it could be just you. I heard Lee Greenwood. But that could be just ME…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5816 "2013-05-26T19:43:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In fairness to Roy, our “short, little pointy guy” is a psychotic mass murderer. If circumstances somehow forced me to hang out with Jeffrey Dahmer for extended periods of time, it would take a lot more than learning he had dreams about cute lil kitty cats before I stopped automatically assuming the worst about him. And well, if Jeffrey Dahmer walked in with a plate of food, I’d probably grab a sample for DNA testing and run like hell. I certainly wouldn’t eat it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5817 "2013-05-26T23:26:57Z")
[Blofeld](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Stavro_Blofeld) loved his cat. Admittedly he was more ambitious than Belkar. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5818 "2013-05-27T00:26:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In fairness to Roy, our “short, little pointy guy” is a psychotic mass murderer. If circumstances somehow forced me to hang out with Jeffrey Dahmer for extended periods of time, it would take a lot more than learning he had dreams about cute lil kitty cats before I stopped automatically assuming the worst about him. Thog adores puppies, and the artist has made it very, very clear that Thog is evil. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5819 "2013-05-27T00:47:54Z")
I don’t think it’s so much that Roy’s a dick. It’s just that he’s completely non-introspective. (One of the foreshadowings I mentioned was Burlew ironically casting Roy as Hamlet, the most introspective character in all literature.) Once Roy thinks he knows what’s going on, he never stops to wonder. So Roy decided long ago that Belkar was a simple evil killer - and he doesn’t look to see the signs that this is no longer true. Which may also be cause for irony. A more sensitive Roy would have noticed the changes in the way Belkar’s been acting and would have concluded Belkar had changed. But Roy still sees him and treats him like the same old Belkar he was in the past. So if Belkar’s faking his change of heart, then the way Roy is ignoring the surface changes is enabling him to see the real unchanged Belkar. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5820 "2013-05-27T02:05:06Z")
Well, he _has_ noticed the change in Belkar’s behavior. He just thinks that it’s a ruse. Which, to be fair, it totally is. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5821 "2013-05-27T03:38:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, he _has_ noticed the change in Belkar’s behavior. He just thinks that it’s a ruse. Which, to be fair, it totally is. Was a ruse, you mean. It started as a ruse, now it seems to be something else, but we don’t know quite what. Except that Belkar’s happily-ever-after now includes him peacefully cooking fish for his cat and Shojo, where I’d totally buy his old ever-after including stabby whores. And don’t forget he saved Gannji and Enor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=290) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=292)