# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 299
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5962 "2013-06-21T13:28:29Z")
And a reminder (q.v. his big fight with Thog) that Roy knows architecture. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5963 "2013-06-21T13:44:02Z")
Someone who understands OOTS cosmology better than I: what are the implications of destroying the gate? Does that risk freeing the snarl? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5964 "2013-06-21T13:48:14Z")
Malack is quickly becoming my favorite character in this strip. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5965 "2013-06-21T13:56:13Z")
So I guess this is where Xykon enters. ETA: and V too, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5966 "2013-06-21T14:32:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Someone who understands OOTS cosmology better than I: what are the implications of destroying the gate? Does that risk freeing the snarl? Yes - when the Sapphire City gate was destroyed, the rift widened and the Snarl was more visible/active. I think that also happened for Lirian’s and Dorukan’s gates. Once all the gates are destroyed, presumably the Snarl will be free. Roy’s plan is no better than a stalling tactic: destroy this gate to prevent Xykon actually opening it and - presumably - race north for a last ditch stand at Kraagor’s gate. As his initial plan has been completely blown out the water by the death of Durkon and disappearance of V, it’s not a terrible fallback but it is damn risky. I did like Belkar’s “Stop suppressing our rupture, you electoresistive niche” as a callback to his previous pro-lead sheet attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5967 "2013-06-21T15:07:17Z")
How is Roy going to destroy the gate and survive? Remember what happened with the last two gates. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5968 "2013-06-21T15:18:37Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > How is Roy going to destroy the gate and survive? Remember what happened with the last two gates. He doesn’t actually need to survive. In fact, he’s died once before. I imagine the Sapphire Guard would bring him back again - he better than any of their fighters and they need the help. Even better if he can blow the gate while the Linear Guild is still in the pyramid - a chance to kill them off too, (although I think Malack would survice via a change to gaseous form, he doesn’t really care about the gates). The trick there would get getting the rest of the Order out of the temple first. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5969 "2013-06-21T15:22:24Z")
> [@MegaBee](#): > > Strip #895 is up! [895 Plain Sight - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0895.html) Huh. Look at me not even being in the same State as right 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5970 "2013-06-21T16:08:38Z")
Of course, it may not be the REAL gate… ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5971 "2013-06-21T16:37:13Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > He doesn’t actually need to survive. In fact, he’s died once before. I imagine the Sapphire Guard would bring him back again - he better than any of their fighters and they need the help. How? Do they have any high level clerics left? I thought they were all dead. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5972 "2013-06-21T17:02:35Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > How? Do they have any high level clerics left? I thought they were all dead. Right. They’d need _true resurrection_ to bring him back if his body’s destroyed, and that’s a ninth level spell that requires 25,000 gp in materials. No way the Sapphire guard has that kind of swag just lying around at this point, to say nothing of access to a 17th level cleric to cast it. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5973 "2013-06-21T17:11:16Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > How? Do they have any high level clerics left? I thought they were all dead. > [@Miller](#): > > Right. They’d need _true resurrection_ to bring him back if his body’s destroyed, and that’s a ninth level spell that requires 25,000 gp in materials. No way the Sapphire guard has that kind of swag just lying around at this point, to say nothing of access to a 17th level cleric to cast it. Assuming they still have some scrap of Roy’s body left, they only need _Resurrection_, which is only 7th level. Unfortunately, I doubt they’d be able to recover his entire body and get it to a cleric in time for _Raise Dead_. Interestingly, I could a plot point where Malack thanks them for saving the universe (once he knows about the snarl) and killing Nale with a _True Resurrection_. Or Durkon, once he leaves Malack’s thrall. Those are speculative though. However, I dunno what kind of clerics the SG has left, so even getting 7th level spells may be difficult. EDIT: I don’t think the cost is that big a deal, Wealth by Level means one of the other members of the Order could spring for it pretty easily. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5974 "2013-06-21T17:53:52Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > However, I dunno what kind of clerics the SG has left, so even getting 7th level spells may be difficult. True. The only [Resurrection-capable SG cleric](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html) we know of for certain died [in an epic duel](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html). ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5975 "2013-06-21T18:49:20Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > and killing Nale with a _True Resurrection_ Say what? Did you misspeak, or does True Resurrection = true death if the caster is undead? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5976 "2013-06-21T18:54:09Z")
I think he means that Malack could thank them with a true resurrection for saving the universe and killing Nale. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5977 "2013-06-21T19:08:25Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Assuming they still have some scrap of Roy’s body left, they only need _Resurrection_, which is only 7th level. That’s why I said, “if his body’s destroyed.” ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5978 "2013-06-21T19:40:55Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Say what? Did you misspeak, or does True Resurrection = true death if the caster is undead? > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I think he means that Malack could thank them with a true resurrection for saving the universe and killing Nale. Yes, that is what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5979 "2013-06-21T20:49:25Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > How is Roy going to destroy the gate and survive? Remember what happened with the last two gates. Actually the first gate didn’t explode. [The Castle Self Destruct rune did](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0118.html). So it’s unclear to me that all gates explode when destroyed. It seems like a reasonable guess though. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5980 "2013-06-21T23:43:15Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Actually the first gate didn’t explode. [The Castle Self Destruct rune did](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0118.html). So it’s unclear to me that all gates explode when destroyed. It seems like a reasonable guess though. … and in **Start of Darkness** , when Lirian’s Gate was destroyed, it just made the “krackakoom!” noise, rather than causing any kind of real explosion – Redcloak, standing right next to it at the time, was unharmed. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/5981 "2013-06-22T00:48:06Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > … and in **Start of Darkness** , > > when Lirian’s Gate was destroyed, it just made the “krackakoom!” noise, rather than causing any kind of real explosion – Redcloak, standing right next to it at the time, was unharmed. There you go. I’d forgotten this gate (Girrard’s) is the fourth gate, not the third. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=298) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=300)