# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 303
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6042 "2013-07-02T12:03:21Z")
[spoiler]That’s a rather (appropriately!) fiendish touch, they’re making him _watch_ his failure. And they sure are giving V rather a lot of juicy info; their interest in the gates, Sabine being aligned with them, the fact that they can disable him at will. I wonder how or if they plan to keep him/her from doing anything with it. And will Blackwing want to stop being V’s familiar after this?[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6043 "2013-07-02T12:05:57Z")
So now V knows about Sabine’s link to the Three. Oh yes, I do wonder: they said V’s body would be kept safe. But I wonder if V will be buried under a pyramid of rubble… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6044 "2013-07-02T12:25:55Z")
No, he’ll be transported to the Snarl-world with the others. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6045 "2013-07-02T12:33:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, he’ll be transported to the Snarl-world with the others. Interesting idea, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6046 "2013-07-02T12:38:44Z")
[spoiler] > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And they sure are giving V rather a lot of juicy info; their interest in the gates, Sabine being aligned with them, the fact that they can disable him at will. I wonder how or if they plan to keep him/her from doing anything with it. They might _want_ V to do something with it. After all, disabling V directly limits them to less than an hour of incapacitation. Knowing that V will become completely useless at the most inopportune time makes that incapacitation permanent.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6047 "2013-07-02T12:40:08Z")
The fiends said that they’d shield V’s (and presumably Blackwing’s) soul from harm while in Hell. All they said about his body was that they weren’t going to stuff another soul into it. Although it may be in their best interest to protect his body until all their claims are exercised (assuming they need all that time). Also, when was it established that destroying a gate would transport nearby people into the Snarl World? Miko was at ground zero for the Azure City explosion and she was torn in half. Perhaps if they were at a safe distance when the gate was destroyed, and then dropped through the resulting rift after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6048 "2013-07-02T12:48:41Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > The fiends said that they’d shield V’s (and presumably Blackwing’s) soul from harm while in Hell. All they said about his body was that they weren’t going to stuff another soul into it. Although it may be in their best interest to protect his body until all their claims are exercised (assuming they need all that time). No, they said “In fact, your \*\*body \*\*will be shielded from all harm for the duration of your stay. We pride ourselves on our good customer service.” > [@](#): > > Also, when was it established that destroying a gate would transport nearby people into the Snarl World? Miko was at ground zero for the Azure City explosion and she was torn in half. I was wondering what they were going to do about the Big Kaboom, given that the two gates they’ve seen destroyed went up spectacularly. Admittedly Lirian’s Gate was less explodey, but they didn’t see that one go. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6049 "2013-07-02T13:32:57Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Also, when was it established that destroying a gate would transport nearby people into the Snarl World? Miko was at ground zero for the Azure City explosion and she was torn in half. It hasn’t been established. It’s just a guess on my behalf, based on the belief that you don’t show a mysterious location without eventually going there - Chekhov’s Material Plane, if you will - and on the fact that we’ve already ended a book with a gate exploding, which means it’s unlikely to happen the same way again. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6050 "2013-07-02T14:05:47Z")
I still can’t imagine Roy just hacking at the gate until it goes ‘kaboom’. Surely they can come up with some better plan. I mean planning has worked out so well for them in the past, right? \ Hmmmm… OK, ‘kaboom’ here we come. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6051 "2013-07-02T14:17:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, they said “In fact, your \*\*body \*\*will be shielded from all harm for the duration of your stay. We pride ourselves on our good customer service.” Ah, good catch. I must have missed the wordage, as I took the context from them apparently warding V’s soul as they said it. Another question on the “whether they said exactly that” topic: Are all three fiends lawful? I feel like we’re being nudged to examine the exact things they said as though that perfectly guides their actions (V is probably rethinking all of that right now). However, one of the main (stated) goals of the three fiends was to promote inter-fiend collaboration. I could see a twist where one of the three does something with V that’s contradictory to what one of the other fiends said, revealing that they’re not actually lawful. One of the D&D lore-bearers want to weigh in on the alignments of the three fiends? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6052 "2013-07-02T14:21:40Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > One of the D&D lore-bearers want to weigh in on the alignments of the three fiends? Meaningful names to the rescue! Cedric = Chaotic Evil, Nero = Neutral Evil, Lee = Lawful Evil. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6053 "2013-07-02T14:21:47Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Ah, good catch. I must have missed the wordage, as I took the context from them apparently warding V’s soul as they said it. > > Another question on the “whether they said exactly that” topic: Are all three fiends lawful? I feel like we’re being nudged to examine the exact things they said as though that perfectly guides their actions (V is probably rethinking all of that right now). However, one of the main (stated) goals of the three fiends was to promote inter-fiend collaboration. I could see a twist where one of the three does something with V that’s contradictory to what one of the other fiends said, revealing that they’re not actually lawful. > > One of the D&D lore-bearers want to weigh in on the alignments of the three fiends? No, they’re each one of the three major evil alignments: Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil. Which means (probably) that Lee is a devil/baatezu, Neville is a daemon/yugoloth and Cedric is a demon/tanar’ri. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6054 "2013-07-02T15:06:56Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Another question on the “whether they said exactly that” topic: Are all three fiends lawful? I feel like we’re being nudged to examine the exact things they said as though that perfectly guides their actions (V is probably rethinking all of that right now). However, one of the main (stated) goals of the three fiends was to promote inter-fiend collaboration. I could see a twist where one of the three does something with V that’s contradictory to what one of the other fiends said, revealing that they’re not actually lawful. A Chaotic-aligned being may still be bound by law, even if they would not choose to do so on their own. If the terms of the contract are part of the magic that allowed them to extract V’s soul, Cedrick may be no more capable of exceeding its limits than a CG barbarian can disregard the law of gravity. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6055 "2013-07-02T16:05:39Z")
Is “BOGO” supposed to be an abbreviation for something? A reference to…? Blackwing will learn something while here and act on it later when V cannot. Chekov’s raven-familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6056 "2013-07-02T16:10:16Z")
Payless Shoes, and probably other retailers, will have BOGO sales. Buy One Get One free. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6057 "2013-07-02T16:11:05Z")
Never Mind. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6058 "2013-07-02T16:12:34Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > A Chaotic-aligned being may still be bound by law, even if they would not choose to do so on their own. If the terms of the contract are part of the magic that allowed them to extract V’s soul, Cedrick may be no more capable of exceeding its limits than a CG barbarian can disregard the law of gravity. Besides which, he’s already in an alliance with the other two, which in of itself constrains chaos. Chaotic != chaotic stupid, after all. At any rate, I still think that V’s worry about genocide was misplaced. And as someone on the official forums pointed out, just because the trio wants the gate destroyed doesn’t _necessarily_ mean it’s the wrong thing to do… ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6059 "2013-07-02T16:36:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Meaningful names to the rescue! Cedric = Chaotic Evil, Nero = Neutral Evil, Lee = Lawful Evil. Ah, right. I now recall the recent post that said the same thing. Damn short term memory. Thanks! [QUOTE=Grumman] A Chaotic-aligned being may still be bound by law, even if they would not choose to do so on their own. If the terms of the contract are part of the magic that allowed them to extract V’s soul, Cedrick may be no more capable of exceeding its limits than a CG barbarian can disregard the law of gravity. [/QUOTE] Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6060 "2013-07-02T16:54:13Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Payless Shoes, and probably other retailers, will have BOGO sales. Buy One Get One free. Half-price, actually (in the case of Payless Shoes, anyway. Other retailers might actually do BOGO as a twofer). Also, what’s with everyone anticipating a “Kaboom?” Isn’t it supposed to be “krackakoom!” ([cite](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0696.html))? ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6061 "2013-07-02T17:30:15Z")
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