# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 309
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6162 "2013-07-18T11:49:14Z")
Life’s a beach and then you die. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6163 "2013-07-18T12:12:31Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Clearly they’re duned. [Elan]Dunn-Dunn-Dunn…Dune.[/Elan] ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6164 "2013-07-18T12:13:45Z")
The strips must flow. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6165 "2013-07-18T13:15:52Z")
I wonder if magic still works on the other side of the rift? I could see them going through, chased by the elemental who then dissolves back into a pile of sand. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6166 "2013-07-18T15:11:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I wonder if magic still works on the other side of the rift? I could see them going through, chased by the elemental who then dissolves back into a pile of sand. I’ve been thinking about the same thing. Magic doesn’t work in the rift. Maybe if all the gates get busted, this plane merges with that plane, and all the magic goes away\*. Maybe the OOTS discovers that and (much much later) somehow lure Xykon into it: poof, no more Lich. What I can’t figure is 1) why seemly everyone involved with the gates (Dorukon, Soon, etc) lied (or was deluded) about their nature, and 2) how the Three Fiends would benefit from destroying all the gates, if that caused the planes to merge. I’m going with the notion that they all believe in the Snarl but they’re completely mistaken and it doesn’t actually exist per se. All of that said, I’m a little tired of the “wow, I bet they go into the rift!” speculation. I get it, they might. K? (that’s not directed at you, **Gyrate**.) \*A tip of the hat to [Larry Niven](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Goes_Away). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6167 "2013-07-18T16:05:49Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > What I can’t figure is 1) why seemly everyone involved with the gates (Dorukon, Soon, etc) lied (or was deluded) about their nature, and 2) how the Three Fiends would benefit from destroying all the gates, if that caused the planes to merge. I’m going with the notion that they all believe in the Snarl but they’re completely mistaken and it doesn’t actually exist per se. I suspect that they were not lied to or deluded so much as something has changed. As for the Fiends, they may not want to destroy all the Gates - they may want there to be only one left. That way if they _do_ plan on seizing control of one, no one will be be able to use another Gate to bypass their control. And [note](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0897.html) that the fiends did not specifically say “we don’t want to control _any_ of the Gates”. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6168 "2013-07-18T16:06:03Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I’ve been thinking about the same thing. Magic doesn’t work in the rift. Maybe if all the gates get busted, this plane merges with that plane, and all the magic goes away\*. Maybe the OOTS discovers that and (much much later) somehow lure Xykon into it: poof, no more Lich. I think it’s more likely that Xykon would still exist, he just wouldn’t be a magical powerhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6169 "2013-07-18T16:28:30Z")
What if the Snarl created a world on its own inside its prison space? ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6170 "2013-07-18T16:37:10Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I think it’s more likely that Xykon would still exist, he just wouldn’t be a magical powerhouse. But isn’t Xykon’s lich form stitched together and animated by magic? If he enters a non-magic space, does he just automatically die (or at least lose the ability to move)? This has to have come up in D&D at some point, since Anti-Magic Sphere is a thing. Now some distinctly crazy speculation: If the Snarl World is supposed to be our world (or one like it), I wonder if it was created by the Snarl itself. I’ve been thinking on Roy and Celia’s discussion of the OotS world and how weird it would be to be in a world without skill points and a guaranteed appropriate afterlife and such. The Snarl was originally born of the chaos and bickering between the gods when they created the OotS universe, and it took ordered construction to contain it. What if, during its imprisonment, it went and created its own chaotic world, ungoverned by the same laws: our world. After all, our world is often cruel and chaotic and seemingly random (assuming one focuses on interactions between humans and ignores the laws of nature as currently understood). I think that would be an interesting idea, but I kind of doubt that Rich is going in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6171 "2013-07-18T16:38:13Z")
Aaaaand ninja’d by the **Hypno-Toad**. All glory to the **Hypno-Toad**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6172 "2013-07-18T16:45:58Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > But isn’t Xykon’s lich form stitched together and animated by magic? If he enters a non-magic space, does he just automatically die (or at least lose the ability to move)? This has to have come up in D&D at some point, since Anti-Magic Sphere is a thing. Anti-Magic Sphere affects spells and spell-like abilities. Xykon would not just ‘go poof’ in an Anti-Magic Sphere (his existence is not a spell or spell-like ability). Refer to V vs. Black Dragon for comparison. Even if Xykon _did_ ‘go poof’ from some event, his soul would simply go to his phylactry, as that is what happens to liches. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6173 "2013-07-18T16:52:03Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > But isn’t Xykon’s lich form stitched together and animated by magic? If he enters a non-magic space, does he just automatically die (or at least lose the ability to move)? This has to have come up in D&D at some point, since Anti-Magic Sphere is a thing. Per the spell, anti-magic shield doesn’t affect corporeal undead. Xykon would be able to use spells or supernatural abilities, but he’d still be able to walk around and talk and stuff. I don’t know if I’d use that as a model for what would happen if he went ino a wholly non magical world, though. The limit on anti-magic spell is more a matter of game balance than logical sense. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6174 "2013-07-18T16:55:50Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Anti-Magic Sphere affects spells and spell-like abilities. Xykon would not just ‘go poof’ in an Anti-Magic Sphere. Refer to V vs. Black Dragon for comparison. > > Even if Xykon _did_ ‘go poof’ from some event, his soul would simply go to his phylactry, as that is what happens to liches. I recall the incident with the Black Dragon, but I didn’t think of her as being allowed to exist due to magic in the same way as a human whose soul has been magically bound to a skeleton body. Still, fair enough that a lich won’t just die if they enter an Anti-Magic Sphere. Rich has been known to bend rules when convenient, however, as he’s more interested in the story than making sure every last D&D rule is 100% correct. It’d be a small handwave to say that the Snarl World blocked any and all magic, and that magical creatures could either not physically enter or cease to exist if they did. Not that I think that’s a likely direction for the story to go in. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6175 "2013-07-18T16:57:50Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > But isn’t Xykon’s lich form stitched together and animated by magic? If he enters a non-magic space, does he just automatically die (or at least lose the ability to move)? This has to have come up in D&D at some point, since Anti-Magic Sphere is a thing. from the d20SRD: [[QUOTE=d20srd.org](http://QUOTE=d20srd.org)] Elementals, **corporeal undead** , and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6176 "2013-07-18T17:47:36Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I recall the incident with the Black Dragon, but I didn’t think of her as being allowed to exist due to magic in the same way as a human whose soul has been magically bound to a skeleton body. Still, fair enough that a lich won’t just die if they enter an Anti-Magic Sphere. > > Rich has been known to bend rules when convenient, however, as he’s more interested in the story than making sure every last D&D rule is 100% correct. It’d be a small handwave to say that the Snarl World blocked any and all magic, and that magical creatures could either not physically enter or cease to exist if they did. Not that I think that’s a likely direction for the story to go in. The only thing that would really piss me off would be if Burlew took a page from Anthony’s _Apprentice Adept_ series and made Xykon-in-no-magic-land turn into a robot skeleton with autonomous movement and advanced AI. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6177 "2013-07-18T17:51:03Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The only thing that would really piss me off would be if Burlew took a page from Anthony’s _Apprentice Adept_ series and made Xykon-in-no-magic-land turn into a robot skeleton with autonomous movement and advanced AI. > **[venturefans.org](http://ww38.venturefans.org/vbwiki/Ghost_Robot)** 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6178 "2013-07-18T17:58:32Z")
Just to be clear, there’s no actual reason to think that magic wouldnt work on the other side of the gate, right? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6179 "2013-07-18T18:03:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Just to be clear, there’s no actual reason to think that magic wouldnt work on the other side of the gate, right? No. Pure speculation. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6180 "2013-07-18T19:15:54Z")
Something tells me that stepping through a portal to reach a world that was possibly created by a god-killing abomination is not necessarily a good idea! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6181 "2013-07-18T20:16:02Z")
Now that Team Evil have left, they have no reason to go through the gate. Redcloak has summoned an Elder Earth (Silicon) elemental which will only delay the Order a couple of rounds. Remember Roy one-shotting all those Mummies? He’s got Haley and Belkar to assist now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=308) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=310)