# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 314
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6262 "2013-07-24T22:52:36Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Won’t work. The elemental was commanded, “Kill everyone, starting with the human with the greatsword” so it’ll just attack anyway. I would think that would be a reason why it would work. If nobody present fit the description of the target the elemental was ordered to kill first then it would go looking for a human with a great sword to kill. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6263 "2013-07-24T23:58:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I would think that would be a reason why it would work. If nobody present fit the description of the target the elemental was ordered to kill first then it would go looking for a human with a great sword to kill. And Nale carries a short sword. Maybe that’s close enough. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6264 "2013-07-25T00:05:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I would think that would be a reason why it would work. If nobody present fit the description of the target the elemental was ordered to kill first then it would go looking for a human with a great sword to kill. Yeah, it CAN’T go for anyone else until after it has dropped a human with a greatsword. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6265 "2013-07-25T01:45:57Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I also like the idea of luring the elemental through the gate. If the water is shallow enough, you’d even get a small desert island. Nah, if a summoned creature, which the elder earth elemental is, gets killed, it returns to it’s home plane, rather than leaving a corpse. So no island for the order. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6266 "2013-07-25T01:46:23Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > And Nale carries a short sword. Maybe that’s close enough. 😃 Since puns are Elan’s schtick as a Dashing Swordsman, he could yell a compliment if Nale shows up: “Hey, Nale! That’s a _GREAT_ sword! Is it new?” Then Haley hides Roy’s sword. (And the elemental probably gives up in disgust.) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6267 "2013-07-25T03:46:46Z")
It’s too bad for Redcloak he didn’t order the elemental to “Kill everyone, starting with the dark skinned human wearing the blue armor.” Also, re O-Chul, can anyone find the part in the battle Rich hinted at, when he says “There is a clue as to his role hidden in one of the strips during the war, but I leave it as an exercise to the reader to find it.” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6268 "2013-07-25T04:49:54Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > It’s too bad for Redcloak he didn’t order the elemental to “Kill everyone, starting with the dark skinned human wearing the blue armor.” I’m thinking that’s the key to how this battle will play out, and end. > [@](#): > > Also, re O-Chul, can anyone find the part in the battle Rich hinted at, when he says “There is a clue as to his role hidden in one of the strips during the war, but I leave it as an exercise to the reader to find it.” I tried after the exchange in this thread, and came up with nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6269 "2013-07-25T05:11:10Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Yeah, it CAN’T go for anyone else until after it has dropped a human with a greatsword. Despite it’s silicon nature, the elemental isn’t a computer. It’s an intelligent, language-using creature, about as smart as an average human. It should be able to understand that Roy dropping his sword doesn’t suddenly make him a different person. I don’t think Haley necessarily bluffed the elemental, so much as created a second target that fit the parameters of Redcloak’s command, which allowed the elemental to choose between the two targets - and right now, with Roy almost out of the fight and without his best weapon, Haley’s the more dangerous opponent. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6270 "2013-07-25T05:44:00Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I tried after the exchange in this thread, and came up with nothing. For those keeping score at home, there’s only five appearances of O-Chul total before the paralyzing touch: #'s 403, 404, 412-413, 422, 447. None seem to offer a clue to his importance IMO. That clue might have been when O-Chul was off-panel, but I can’t find it. We’re talking at most 47 comics, and half of those weren’t “during the war”. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6271 "2013-07-25T05:46:33Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > For those keeping score at home, there’s only five appearances of O-Chul total before the paralyzing touch: #'s 403, 404, 412-413, 422, 447. None seem to offer a clue to his importance IMO. That clue might have been when O-Chul was off-panel, but I can’t find it. We’re talking at most 47 comics, and half of those weren’t “during the war”. Pardon: 44 comics ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6272 "2013-07-25T06:02:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Despite it’s silicon nature, the elemental isn’t a computer. It’s an intelligent, language-using creature, about as smart as an average human. It should be able to understand that Roy dropping his sword doesn’t suddenly make him a different person. I don’t think Haley necessarily bluffed the elemental, so much as created a second target that fit the parameters of Redcloak’s command, which allowed the elemental to choose between the two targets - and right now, with Roy almost out of the fight and without his best weapon, Haley’s the more dangerous opponent. According to the Monster Manual it should have an INT of 8, which would make it a fairly stupid human. > [@squeegee](#): > > For those keeping score at home, there’s only five appearances of O-Chul total before the paralyzing touch: #'s 403, 404, 412-413, 422, 447. None seem to offer a clue to his importance IMO. That clue might have been when O-Chul was off-panel, but I can’t find it. We’re talking at most 47 comics, and half of those weren’t “during the war”. Thanks, man! That was more effort than I was going to put into it. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6273 "2013-07-25T08:20:14Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > According to the Monster Manual it should have an INT of 8, which would make it a fairly stupid human. That puts it a bit below average human intelligence. But for the plan being talked about here to work, it needs to have an INT of _zero_. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6274 "2013-07-25T11:13:36Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Ugh, Haley’s going to get herself killed and I won’t be able to forgive Rich. That can’t happen (or at least not permanently) - Elan has to get his happy ending. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6275 "2013-07-25T12:17:46Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Or she could hand the sword to the halfling, who isn’t a human with a great broadsword. Of course that’s risky given that the little psycho has all of one hitpoint left. Well, Elan did cast Mass Cure Light Wounds back in 900. He should have a little more than 1 hp left. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6276 "2013-07-25T13:49:28Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > That puts it a bit below average human intelligence. But for the plan being talked about here to work, it needs to have an INT of _zero_. Heck, even my _dog_ knows I’m not a different person when I change my clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6277 "2013-07-25T14:18:33Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > That puts it a bit below average human intelligence. But for the plan being talked about here to work, it needs to have an INT of _zero_. You’re assuming the elemental actually cares about interpreting the orders correctly. If it’s smart enough to ignore the literal interpretation of its orders in favor of their intent, and wants to do so, why did it switch to targeting Haley? Why wouldn’t it switch again, given reason? (I’ll grant that it’s not likely to quit attacking just because none of them is holding a greatsword.) There might be a better way, though. Elan said he was out of _healing_ spells. How many illusions does he have left today? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6278 "2013-07-25T19:21:01Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > According to the Monster Manual it should have an INT of 8, which would make it a fairly stupid human. [This says 10.](http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Elder_Earth_Elemental) ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6279 "2013-07-25T19:50:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That can’t happen (or at least not permanently) - Elan has to get his happy ending. Well, he did get a happy illusion for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6280 "2013-07-25T20:00:57Z")
So I assume if the LG gets involved about now, Malack (or Durkon) could dispel (dismiss?) the elemental, right? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6281 "2013-07-25T20:12:34Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So I assume if the LG gets involved about now, Malack (or Durkon) could dispel (dismiss?) the elemental, right? The spell you’re thinking of is [Dismissal](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dismissal.htm). V could cast it as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=313) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=315)