# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 322
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6422 "2013-08-01T14:03:39Z")
It’s not about being in awe. It’s understanding that what is to you an ambush was a carefully calculated plan by your opponent. And again, Zzdtri is standing right there. Even if Durkon knew he could take Nale down, he surely can’t expect Z to stay uninvolved. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6423 "2013-08-01T15:14:01Z")
I was thinking more along the lines of the staff being easily removed. Grabbing something from someone unsuspecting is a lot different than them being aware. Aware Durkon + Staff \> Unaware Malack. Nale’s pretty beat up. I doubt he’ll meet his end now (for story’s sake) but if Durkon could hypothetically take him down in a couple hits/spells, I wonder if Z would even stick around. He doesn’t have much story or motive to him to base a guess on. Durkon could also call his fiend back to directly assist him, lessening the push on the Order and shift the balance that way. Again though, for sake of narrative alone, I assume Nale is safe. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6424 "2013-08-01T19:45:07Z")
My take is that Burlew can do anything he wants with Durkon, given the flexibility of vampire lore both within and outside D&D. For me, the most realistic would have Durkon backing off, recalling his demon, and opening negotiations with both teams. That would be evil, lawful and a little feral. Durkon is in a vulnerable way. I suppose his best ally might be Tarquin. But that scenario would be boring and wouldn’t drive him back to his homeland. So I’m guessing he will throw in his lot with Oots. I also agree that flying Z isn’t to be trifled with. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6425 "2013-08-01T22:09:42Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Now, since the Count was created via Malack’s staff, who knows how those rules will be changed? Maybe grabbing the staff fulfills the coffin requirement? I don’t know. Malack [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0879.html) says that Durkon is vulnerable as he doesn’t yet have his own sarcophagus. So merely being vampirized with aid of the staff isn’t enough. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6426 "2013-08-01T22:57:02Z")
Well, it just so happens there’s a nice handy sarcophagus right there, albeit one with a broken loid. Can he use that? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6427 "2013-08-01T23:47:23Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Well, it just so happens there’s a nice handy sarcophagus right there, albeit one with a broken loid. Can he use that? [Yeah, I wonder](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16520712&postcount=6308). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6428 "2013-08-02T02:15:23Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Well, it just so happens there’s a nice handy sarcophagus right there, albeit one with a broken loid. Can he use that? It’s not entirely clear. The game mechanics say that, if a vampire is reduced to 0 ho, he automatically turns to mist and has to hours to get back to his coffin, or he dies. What makes it “his” coffin isn’t explained, though. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6429 "2013-08-02T04:48:33Z")
So why didn’t Malack use Slay Living in [#811](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html) when he had the chance? Short answer is obviously “plot”, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6430 "2013-08-02T05:17:40Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So why didn’t Malack use Slay Living in [#811](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html) when he had the chance? Short answer is obviously “plot”, but still. Harm’s a more reliable spell (it does a minimum of 55 damage versus only 3) so if you have time to win by attrition, it’s probably better. It’s less likely to kill someone outright, but that doesn’t matter if you think you’ll have time for a second strike. Malack didn’t have time for a second strike because he was going to be dead in six seconds, so he went with the Hail Mary pass of Slay Living. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6431 "2013-08-02T05:44:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s not entirely clear. The game mechanics say that, if a vampire is reduced to 0 ho, he automatically turns to mist and has to hours to get back to his coffin, or he dies. Is that via failure to keep his pimp hand strong? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6432 "2013-08-02T12:50:14Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Harm’s a more reliable spell (it does a minimum of 55 damage versus only 3) so if you have time to win by attrition, it’s probably better. It’s less likely to kill someone outright, but that doesn’t matter if you think you’ll have time for a second strike. Harm and the Inflict Wounds lines also had double utility for Malack since they harmed his foes or could be used to heal himself. He may have usually loaded up on those spells and used his other slots for various utility spells. Especially when just hanging around the castle and presumably not slaying many living things hour to hour. Makes sense that he’d memorize Slay Living when ‘adventuring’ though. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6433 "2013-08-02T16:11:19Z")
[New strip.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0907.html) Durk’s pimp hand may not be strong, but his cane is just fine. Edit: Oh, and it’s weird to see Burlew work blue. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6434 "2013-08-02T16:21:20Z")
Some prediction coming true (not mine, but still): Accent back: Check Still hates LG: Check ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6435 "2013-08-02T16:22:16Z")
He’s back! Sort of. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6436 "2013-08-02T16:24:44Z")
And you notice that only Durk is free of scratches (implying damage), while both Nale and D’Z are both pretty well marked up. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6437 "2013-08-02T16:29:32Z")
That was a very, very satisfying last panel. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6438 "2013-08-02T16:30:20Z")
Well, now we know Z’s motives 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6439 "2013-08-02T16:33:11Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > I think next time we see Durkula as a free vampire, he will be speaking with a Dwarven accent, indicating at least some of Durkon’s personality remains. Good call. ---
**Author:** ![satogata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@satogata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/satogata)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6440 "2013-08-02T16:35:24Z")
> [@thinksnow](#): > > And you notice that only Durk is free of scratches (implying damage), while both Nale and D’Z are both pretty well marked up. No surprise Durkula’s clean – Vamps fast heal 5 hp/round under SRD rules. A bigger question is whether he knows how to activate his Dominate skill yet as a free vampire. Dom’ing Z could really make this battle one-sided. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6441 "2013-08-02T16:54:20Z")
I wonder if Durkon attacked with the staff because he’s just a martial style cleric and they were right there or if he’s not quite ready as a free-willed vampire to use divine magic yet? Going back to the muddled mess of divine magic, game balance and theology, does Durkon just start calling on Loki (or some other Norse deity) for aid or what? He summoned the fiend but that was as a thrall. Anyway, I’m predicting a rapid Nale & Z retreat. This really kind of dorks over the Linear Guild since now they have zero divine casters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=321) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=323)