# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 332
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6622 "2013-08-09T00:59:13Z")
Regardless of his actual current mindset, Belkar is fundamentally a killing machine. It’s one of only two things he’s good at, and he knows it. At his best, he’s just a killing machine that’s aimed at appropriate targets, and you know, he’s right, Durkon does look an awful lot like an appropriate target right now. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6623 "2013-08-09T02:03:26Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Almost makes you wonder if he would want to go with kill/resurrection route to be de-vamped. That’s never going to happen. No chance, no way. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6624 "2013-08-09T05:15:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s never going to happen. No chance, no way. Not for a _long_ time at least. Burlew’s apparently been planning for Durkon’s vamping since nearly the beginning; he’s going to milk it for all its worth. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6625 "2013-08-09T05:44:55Z")
I was speaking in hypotheticals. You would have assumed Durkon would have more concern over his new status but he seems pretty accommodating to it. Given a taste of the additional power it provides, Durkon would be no more interested in returning to life than Malack was. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6626 "2013-08-09T06:15:43Z")
So was the “command: drop” thing supposed to be Durkon using his Vampire’s Gaze to Dominate the elemental? If so, why did it only last one round? ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6627 "2013-08-09T06:43:55Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So was the “command: drop” thing supposed to be Durkon using his Vampire’s Gaze to Dominate the elemental? If so, why did it only last one round? No, it was a spell. [Command](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/command.htm) compels the target to obey one of these commands on its next round if it fails its save: Approach, Drop, Fall, Flee, or Halt. It only lasts 1 round, so if the target can’t follow the command in the next round (for example, if you command it to Drop, and it’s not holding anything), the spell fails. It’s just a first level spell, but Durkon’s got a pretty good whammy behind it, and it was probably the quickest way to get Haley loose. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6628 "2013-08-09T15:00:49Z")
Belkar you ungreatful little bastard. Back in strip 880 when he was telling the gang that Durkon got vamped he said “He just walked in there and saved my life and got straight up murdered for it.” His way of saying thanks is going to Stabbytown? Yeah yeah one track mind and all that, but that was my first reaction. So far Elan hasn’t said anything about Durkon-ula. His reaction should be a great punchline. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6629 "2013-08-09T15:24:10Z")
> [@Mr.Goob](#): > > Belkar you ungreatful little bastard. Back in strip 880 when he was telling the gang that Durkon got vamped he said “He just walked in there and saved my life and got straight up murdered for it.” Right. Murdered for it. Durkon is a vampire now; one that fed on Belkar and was seen with the Linear Guild. I’d probably skip the “Hey, are we attacking the vampire?” Q&A round and go right into the stabbing myself. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6630 "2013-08-09T15:25:42Z")
> [@Mr.Goob](#): > > Belkar you ungreatful little bastard. Back in strip 880 when he was telling the gang that Durkon got vamped he said “He just walked in there and saved my life and got straight up murdered for it.” > > His way of saying thanks is going to Stabbytown? > > Yeah yeah one track mind and all that, but that was my first reaction. > > So far Elan hasn’t said anything about Durkon-ula. His reaction should be a great punchline. I don’t think Belkar was around to see Durkon getting vamped. All he knows is that Malack killed him. Speaking of which, Durkon has a mighty will, but I would not be the least bit surprised if he succumbed to the compulsions of vampirism later on in the strip. Rich isn’t going to just turn him into a vampire and then keep his previous goals and personality as if nothing happened. Durkon is now Lawful Evil, and that side will reveal itself eventually. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6631 "2013-08-09T15:31:05Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > I don’t think Belkar was around to see Durkon getting vamped. All he knows is that Malack killed him. Durkula’s first “meal” was off of Belkar. He was Held, [but he was conscious and aware, so he knew what was going on.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0880.html) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6632 "2013-08-09T15:32:47Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > I don’t think Belkar was around to see Durkon getting vamped. All he knows is that Malack killed him belkar knows about Durkon being turned, and told the Order all about it. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6633 "2013-08-09T15:52:32Z")
Ah true. That’s what I get for being lazy and not looking back. Full retraction on the Belkar part. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6634 "2013-08-09T15:58:20Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Speaking of which, Durkon has a mighty will, but I would not be the least bit surprised if he succumbed to the compulsions of vampirism later on in the strip. Rich isn’t going to just turn him into a vampire and then keep his previous goals and personality as if nothing happened. Durkon is now Lawful Evil, and that side will reveal itself eventually. That was sort of my point before. Durkon went from Lawful Good cleric who hated undead with great passion and was turned into an evil unholy devil-summoning vampire and his reaction is “Oh, so I change when I memorize spells and have to shuffle my slots. So that’s that then…” That seems already like the effects of being evil. He’ll enjoy the boost in power, has no obvious concern for what he’s become and will lose any interest in the motivations of the living Durkon except for how they might help him gain more power and meet his (evil) desires. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6635 "2013-08-09T16:06:46Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > …Durkon is now Lawful Evil, and that side will reveal itself eventually. Like the casual attitude towards snapping the neck of an unconcious foe? ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6636 "2013-08-09T16:43:16Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Like the casual attitude towards snapping the neck of an unconcious foe? [gobbluth]Nah, I think it’ll be something big.[/gobbluth] ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6637 "2013-08-09T17:21:39Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Like the casual attitude towards snapping the neck of an unconcious foe? A _coup de grace_ is not inherently evil - lawful good adventurers can use it all the time. The rest of the Order used it on the goblins in Dorukan’s Dungeon quite handily. EDIT: See [Strip 11](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6638 "2013-08-09T17:30:37Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I was speaking in hypotheticals. You would have assumed Durkon would have more concern over his new status but he seems pretty accommodating to it. Given a taste of the additional power it provides, Durkon would be no more interested in returning to life than Malack was. I can respect that outlook. However, once the main mission is completed, I can see Durkula choosing the path that Vaarsuvius rejected when asked to by Inkyrius. Not that I think V really had the choice to abandon the larger quest. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6639 "2013-08-09T20:35:45Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > That seems already like the effects of being evil. He’ll enjoy the boost in power, has no obvious concern for what he’s become and will lose any interest in the motivations of the living Durkon except for how they might help him gain more power and meet his (evil) desires. He’s probably a bit in denial right now-and he never struck me as someone who was particularly introspective in the first place. Was Nick Knight evil? I thought he was a vampire cop who fought evil (including that within himself, tho the final scene of the series has given fans of the show plenty to debate about). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6640 "2013-08-09T20:37:51Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > He’s probably a bit in denial right now-and he never struck me as someone who was particularly introspective in the first place. Was Nick Knight evil? I thought he was a vampire cop who fought evil (including that within himself, tho the final scene of the series has given fans of the show plenty to debate about). You can’t mix universes. Orcs in Middle-Earth are all evil (despite Tolkien’s misgivings…AFAIK there have been no redeemed ME orcs, ever). Orcs in Azeroth can be good and noble as well as venal and evil. Two different universes. You can’t mix Forever Knight/Twilight/True Blood/Lestatverse vampires with D&D vampires. Two different universes. ETA: Fanfic notwithstanding… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6641 "2013-08-10T01:34:13Z")
> [@](#): > > You can’t mix universes. Orcs in Middle-Earth are all evil (despite Tolkien’s misgivings…AFAIK there have been no redeemed ME orcs, ever). Personally, my take on that is that there is not and cannot be such a thing as a redeemed orc, but there can be a redeemed former orc. That is to say, an orc could be redeemed, but in the process would cease to be an orc, and would presumably from that point be a (very ugly) elf. And I’d never noticed that 3.5 gave the Command spell a specific list of possible commands. It used to be, it could be any single-word imperative verb. The in-combat uses were, practically speaking, mostly limited to those described in the spell, but there were so many more creative uses out of combat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=331) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=333)