# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 335
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6682 "2013-08-13T03:54:55Z")
Et Tu Gaudere? “Definitely” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6683 "2013-08-13T05:08:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If a cleric is high enough level to cast gate, then he can cast true resurrection. Clerics don’t have to individually learn spells. They automatically have access to all the spells on the cleric spell list. _Of course, that might be a wizard opening the gate for him, not a cleric._ Even so, I think it’s a safe assumption that with Tarquin’s power and resources, he has access to any non-epic magic spell, including true resurrection. Since the spellcaster has no visible Holy symbol, and _does_ have a jeweled headband such as is worn by Vaarsuvius, the late Zz’dtri, and the even more late [Dorukan](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html), I’m going to call her as a wizard. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6684 "2013-08-13T05:24:36Z")
I notice, FWIW, that Belkar is still at 1hp at the end of this strip. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6685 "2013-08-13T08:22:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I wonder where exactly Tarquin is? We last saw him in 883 on one of the upper levels of the pyramid. And now we know. That’s an impressive army. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6686 "2013-08-13T11:16:59Z")
I don’t think there’s enough left to resurrect. Reincarnation is a possibility but that means just the same “mind” back. It can be packaged in any species, either sex. Whatever Tarquin’s motives are, coming back with a dino-mounted army definitely places him in the King of Kewl list. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6687 "2013-08-13T11:27:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > However, as regards your second question, all of the spells that bring back dead people only work if the target is willing to return to life. Malack’s already specifically rejected an offer of being resurrected once, I doubt he’ll accept now. Particularly given that, as a high priest of Nergal, he’s probably got a pretty pimp setup in the afterlife. Well, that brings up the open question of whether or not vampires _have_ an afterlife or are simply annihilated at death (as Malack arguably implies [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)). This is still an important question because it affects the possible willingness of Vampire Durkon to go along with the kill-and-raise plan to get old Durkon back. If he knows or figures out that doing so will result in his annihilation, then he’s far less likely to go along with it. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6688 "2013-08-13T12:22:19Z")
My theory: Tarquin is going through the rift, and is taking an army to ensure he can rule once on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6689 "2013-08-13T12:38:38Z")
I don’t think Tarquin is reckless enough to walk himself and his troops into an unknown sea. The force he’s leading gives him immense superiority in the desert, but not a large body of water in an unknown world with unknown inhabitants. He’s there with the army to secure what’s left of the gate. Nale had his chance and he blew it, now Tarquin is back to clean up the mess. I’m looking forward to seeing Nale’s answer to why he fell for the oldest trick in the book and let Order destroy the gate. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6690 "2013-08-13T12:39:44Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Word Of Giant : True Resurrection is not available to anyone, not even Tarquin. > > [http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13861815#post13861815](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13861815#post13861815) Umm… no. He says it’s not available to **everyone** , not anyone. So some people can have it. > [@The Giant](#): > > I prefer to simply treat it as “not available” to everyone, ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6691 "2013-08-13T12:40:56Z")
> [@thinksnow](#): > > My theory: Tarquin is going through the rift, and is taking an army to ensure he can rule once on the other side. Why? He’s yet to see what’s on the other side of the rift. OTOH this is a desert, and if it were a source of fresh water… ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6692 "2013-08-13T12:46:38Z")
> [@thinksnow](#): > > My theory: Tarquin is going through the rift, and is taking an army to ensure he can rule once on the other side. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I don’t think Tarquin is reckless enough to walk himself and his troops into an unknown sea. The force he’s leading gives him immense superiority in the desert, but not a large body of water in an unknown world with unknown inhabitants. He’s there with the army to secure what’s left of the gate. Nale had his chance and he blew it, now Tarquin is back to clean up the mess. > > I’m looking forward to seeing Nale’s answer to why he fell for the oldest trick in the book and let Order destroy the gate. Tarquin does have pterodactyls. He could send one or two through to scout the other side of the rift - for all we know, the rift happens to be facing away from a beach that’s 5ft behind it. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6693 "2013-08-13T13:00:58Z")
Good point. Same with the water. Even if the water is salt water, I’m sure Tarquin has, or can acquire, large purifiers. Still, we’ve got no concrete indication that Tarquin knows any more about the situation than the destruction of the gate. He was probably expecting Nale to screw the pooch and left early to get the cavalry. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6694 "2013-08-13T13:32:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If he knows or figures out that doing so will result in his annihilation, then he’s far less likely to go along with it. Malack says “the person I am today” will be annihilated. He (in my opinion) is referring to his power gain from his vampirism, his long term goals aided by his eternal ‘life’ span and status. A resurrected Malack wouldn’t be as powerful or able to carry out his goal of outliving Tarquin, taking the kingdom and starting a reign of death in Nergal’s name. I expect to see the same from Durkon; his mind is Lawful Evil now and his goals will shift that way as well. He’ll appreciate the increase in power. An offer to slay/resurrect him will be saying “Hey, let us kill you so you can return to the weaker Durkon who doesn’t want to do your stuff any longer”. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6695 "2013-08-13T14:40:35Z")
Is there any possible way to bring back somebody who has died of old age? ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6696 "2013-08-13T15:36:43Z")
I don’t know about D&D in general, but in OotS, it’s touched on in _On the Origin of PCs_: When Eugene passes the Blood Oath of Vengeance to Roy, he mentions that he’s on the verge of dying of old age, and so can’t be resurrected. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6697 "2013-08-13T16:07:07Z")
That’s certainly the general case with dying of old age in D&D - when your time’s up, it’s up. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6698 "2013-08-13T16:10:23Z")
Yes, thats straight out of the spell description for resurrection. So far as I know, there’s no way around it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6699 "2013-08-13T16:12:25Z")
Once someone has actually died of old age, no, it’s too late. However, if someone on the verge of dying of old age is killed in some other way, you can use Reincarnate to get them a new young adult body (some side effects may occur). ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6700 "2013-08-13T16:14:08Z")
This doesn’t result in a lot of people cheating death by committing suicide and reincarnating near the end of their life? Is reincarnation a rare or expensive enough spell to prevent such abuse? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6701 "2013-08-13T16:22:15Z")
I believe, if I am reading the Reincarnate page correctly, that you must roll a die and the value determines the race of the new body so you have to be willing to trust to fate to give you a useful race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=334) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=336)