# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 342
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6822 "2013-08-21T13:10:11Z")
I believe he said we passed the halfway point _somewhere in this book._ It could have been months ago for all we know. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6823 "2013-08-21T13:19:07Z")
I was totally blindsided on this one. I believe that Tarquin will secure Nale’s remains to control his inevitable resurrection in the final act and to decrease the probability of Sabine’s wrath causing Tarquin’s premature death. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6824 "2013-08-21T13:49:01Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I believe he said we passed the halfway point _somewhere in this book._ It could have been months ago for all we know. In the introduction to **Don’t Split the Party** , he says: > [@](#): > > This book right here represents a milestone for the comic: by the time you’re finished reading it, you will have passed the halfway point of the story. Maybe not by page count; my tendency to run long may put more strips remaining than have passed. But there will definitely be less compilation books forthcoming than have already been published, if you count this one. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6825 "2013-08-21T13:52:16Z")
Man, the worst part of this strip is how upset Elan is about his brother being killed by his father. Poor Elan. > [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Anyway. Good on daddy, but with the linear guild out of the way… That must mean Zykon and the end. But Rich said we were halfway through, didn’t he? This doesn’t feel like halfway right now. Something else is gong to come up… Man, you’re lucky Xykon didn’t see you spell his name with a Z. He hates that. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6826 "2013-08-21T14:09:58Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Anyway. Good on daddy, but with the linear guild out of the way… That must mean Zykon and the end. But Rich said we were halfway through, didn’t he? This doesn’t feel like halfway right now. Something else is gong to come up… The author has recently confirmed that there are two more books after the current one, seven in total. Plus an unconfirmed number of prequels/ sidequels. [http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298039](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298039) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6827 "2013-08-21T14:28:18Z")
On rethinking it, I get the sense Tarquin in some ways is as tightly controlled/wound as a Vulcan - he presents a façade of logic and genre-savvy, and acts that way at all times, but underneath, I think he really _was_ best friends with, and cared for, Malack, and also really didn’t like Nale. I think he’ll explain things to Elan in some logical way next strip, but you know, it wouldn’t really have surprised me to see the _tiniest_ smile on his face in the last panel of this one. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6828 "2013-08-21T14:32:08Z")
I could hear a Sicilian accent when Tarquin was speaking in this strip. Definitely a mafia boss at work. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6829 "2013-08-21T14:49:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > On rethinking it, I get the sense Tarquin in some ways is as tightly controlled/wound as a Vulcan - he presents a façade of logic and genre-savvy, and acts that way at all times, but underneath, I think he really _was_ best friends with, and cared for, Malack, and also really didn’t like Nale. I think he’ll explain things to Elan in some logical way next strip, but you know, it wouldn’t really have surprised me to see the _tiniest_ smile on his face in the last panel of this one. I don’t think there was any doubt about his friendship with Malack but, as he himself has said, achieving the desired goals takes precedent over personal feelings. His expectation that Malack would hold off getting his revenge on Nale was nothing more than how he conducted himself. That said, I do think the way that he’s treated Elan and Nale is his version of “being a dad” and nurturing them in a strange twisted controlling way. Perhaps he saw them as another of his legacies on the world, but once Nale made it perfectly clear that he wasn’t going to listen to Daddy, would not help Tarquin achieve his aims and had proved himself a liability, Tarquin had no reason to keep him around and thus felt free to give in to his feelings and exact his revenge. Elan, of course, still has his uses, only some of which we are aware of. Nale of course may not have left the story, given our occasional glimpses into the underworld. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6830 "2013-08-21T14:52:31Z")
Did not see that one coming, but I probably should have. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6831 "2013-08-21T14:58:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Nale of course may not have left the story, given our occasional glimpses into the underworld. We did some speculation in this thread about which afterlife Miko might have ended up in as a fallen paladin. Where might CE psychopaths of Nale’s sort get shelved? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6832 "2013-08-21T15:16:54Z")
How big of a fool was Nale? He knew\* that Tarquin was willing to let Malack kill him and that Tarquin placed Malack higher in value. So a wounded, lone Nale thinks the time to brag about killing his father’s best friend is in front of him, his army and his psion ally? Idiot. (\*Whether or not Tarquin was sincere in this last strip isn’t important; Nale acted under the impression that Malack had open season on him with Tarquin’s blessing) I could see Sabine still filling a role and trying to bring Nale back but I don’t see her posing a direct threat to Tarquin. You don’t get to be Tarquin’s level without fighting a few extra-planar foes along the way and succubi are mid-level employees on the infernal org chart. I can’t believe he hasn’t made worse enemies, both in raw power and in resources, before and came out ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6833 "2013-08-21T15:20:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m positive he’s gone for good. There’s nothing unresolved to his story with Sabine - they loved each other, plain and simple. They had a healthy, homicidal relationship. That’s not the way I see it. Sabine genuinely loves Nale. And Nale also genuinely loves Nale. He likes Sabine but he’s not devoted to her the same way she’s devoted to him. And I feel that’s an unresolved plot point. I think Burlew will bring Nale back so he can put him in a situation where he has to choose between his own best interests and Sabine. Being Nale, I think he’ll pick himself without hesitation and Sabine will find out her love is not really reciprocated. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6834 "2013-08-21T15:41:34Z")
Holy crap. I did not see that coming. I think this is the end of the Linear guild as an antagonist, and the Order will be moving on to bigger bads like the snarl, the IFCC and team Evil. I could see Tarquin disintegrating Nale’s body just to make sure as he doesn’t seem like the type to leave loose ends. Sabine will obviously return with a personal vendetta and as a servant of the fiends. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6835 "2013-08-21T16:03:52Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > How big of a fool was Nale? He knew\* that Tarquin was willing to let Malack kill him and that Tarquin placed Malack higher in value. So a wounded, lone Nale thinks the time to brag about killing his father’s best friend is in front of him, his army and his psion ally? Idiot. Nale was the opposite of his father - he was all about personal feelings. So when he felt that Tarquin wasn’t taking him seriously (and having just majorly screwed up his mission) he felt the need to demonstrate that he really was a badass, someone who could play with the big boys. Unfortunately his low Wisdom score manifested itself here in spectacularly fatal fashion. > [@](#): > > I could see Sabine still filling a role and trying to bring Nale back but I don’t see her posing a direct threat to Tarquin. You don’t get to be Tarquin’s level without fighting a few extra-planar foes along the way and succubi are mid-level employees on the infernal org chart. I can’t believe he hasn’t made worse enemies, both in raw power and in resources, before and came out ahead. If she came at him head on, maybe. If Tarquin gets in the way of the fiends’ plans, however, all bets are off. Also, can a Ring of True Seeing spot a shapechanger? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6836 "2013-08-21T16:29:56Z")
So I see only three afterlives for CE characters: [ul][li][Pandemonium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemonium_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)), “An infinite network of pitch-black catacombs, with winds that drive men mad”[/li][li][The Abyss](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyss_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)), “Evil lands of shocking perversity and unpredictable horror.” [/li][\*][Carceri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carceri), “Liars, cheats and traitors are imprisoned here by their own deceptions.”[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6837 "2013-08-21T16:32:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Also, can a Ring of True Seeing spot a shapechanger? Yes. The only thing it can’t spot is a mundane disguise - anything magical is fair game. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6838 "2013-08-21T16:34:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …but once Nale made it perfectly clear that he wasn’t going to listen to Daddy, would not help Tarquin achieve his aims and had proved himself a liability, Tarquin had no reason to keep him around and thus felt free to give in to his feelings and exact his revenge. Elan, of course, still has his uses, only some of which we are aware of. And now, Elan is keenly aware of the price for making yourself a thorn in daddy’s side when you are not useful. Thorn + use = alive Thorn = dead Thorn + active confrontation = Tarquin personally kills you ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6839 "2013-08-21T16:37:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Unfortunately his low Wisdom score manifested itself here in spectacularly fatal fashion. Wasn’t even all that spectacular, sadly. No climatic battle or anything, just a knife in the ribs when he was already at low health. That’s how bums die. > [@](#): > > If she came at him head on, maybe. If Tarquin gets in the way of the fiends’ plans, however, all bets are off. Also, can a Ring of True Seeing spot a shapechanger? Guess it remains to be seen how much Tarquin stays in the whole Gate plot. He was interested in the one within his stomping grounds but seems less inclined to directly affect the one in another continent. The Directors have been fairly hands off up until now since the mortals were doing what they wanted done (aside from V’s attempted interference) and it’s unlikely that they give a crap about Nale. Sabine does, but she was there just to keep an eye on things while Nale was involved. Now that he’s not, the Directors have better things to do than worry about some silly lover’s vendetta with Tarquin. And they already told Sabine once to remember who she’s working for; a non-subtle hint that her allegiance shouldn’t be with Nale. In other words, I don’t see the Directors becoming Tarquin’s enemy nor setting Sabine upon him. They might just stop caring about Sabine and she could go after Tarquin. Hard to say since we don’t know what their actual end game wish is yet. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6840 "2013-08-21T16:52:10Z")
> [@thinksnow](#): > > And now, Elan is keenly aware of the price for making yourself a thorn in daddy’s side when you are not useful. Well … [maybe](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0597.html). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/6841 "2013-08-21T17:37:56Z")
Tarquin stabbing Nale might be seen as an act of charity. Without Tarquin to protect him, the other members of his party might want to take their own revenge for what he did to Malack - and been considerably crueler about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=341) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=343)