# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 354
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7062 "2013-08-29T19:03:42Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I’m going to predict that when Haley finds her father, she’ll also find Crystal, thus tying up that plot line as well. [Crystal’s dead.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html) ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7063 "2013-08-29T19:07:01Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > [Crystal’s dead.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html) Unless her boss or one of her co-workers had her raised. It sounded like they both expected it. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7064 "2013-08-29T19:47:01Z")
Yeah, I was going to refer to her as ‘the resurrected Crystal,’ but I got hung up on whether I should capitalize the R because of its being a spell, and decided just to leave it off altogether. I assume that Bozzok had her resurrected (capital? Lower case? Crap) and that she’ll be gunning for Haley, metaphorically speaking. I also assume that she’ll jump out at the worst possible moment before Haley kills her again and for good. But what do I know? I’ve been taken off guard by every major plot development since … actually, I’m not sure that I’ve successfully guessed at a major plot point yet. Burlew rocks as a storyteller! ETA: Oh! And I also forgot to add that I really dig Belkar’s expression in the final panel of the comic where Crystal dies. He knows exactly what Haley did and why she has that fancy knife now. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7065 "2013-08-29T19:56:25Z")
Haley seemed pretty confident Crystal wouldn’t be rezzed. Not that that proves anything. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7066 "2013-08-29T20:20:57Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Haley seemed pretty confident Crystal wouldn’t be rezzed. Not that that proves anything. Hard to say. On the one hand Haley makes a point of saying “IF” Bozzok resurrects her, which implies it’s unlikely - we’ve seen Bozzok is careless with his minions and is not the kind of person who would pay to have one revived. On the other hand, Haley immediately follows this by giving Crystal a message for Bozzok - which would be pointless if she really believed Crystal was going to stay dead. So my guess is Haley did think Bozzok would revive Crystal (we’ll assume he’ll dock her future pay for the expense) and she just said it was doubtful to taunt Crystal in her last seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7067 "2013-08-29T21:54:03Z")
Well, at least we have a clearer idea why Nale was such a twist. Being constantly presented with (seemingly?) inanely motivated challenges would put a big chip on anyone’s shoulder. Also, while 25,000 GP (no bonus for live capture) is large enough to attract a number of bounty hunters, I doubt whether it makes Ian anywhere close to public enemy number one. He fully expected Tarquin to pull something like this anyway, which is why he [furtively escaped](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0815.html) at the first opportunity even after receiving amnesty papers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7068 "2013-08-29T22:35:38Z")
A nitpicking detail as I was rereading some old strips. Why couldn’t Redcloak raise his spy? ([link](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html)) The spy had helped recover the phylactery but that in itself wasn’t a secret. If Xykon had questioned him all he would have said was that Redcloak led a raid against the Resistance’s headquarters and recovered the amulet - which is the story Redcloak told Xykon. The spy presumably didn’t know that Redcloak was planning on keeping the real amulet and substituting a fake. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7069 "2013-08-30T01:45:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A nitpicking detail as I was rereading some old strips. > > Why couldn’t Redcloak raise his spy? ([link](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html)) The spy had helped recover the phylactery but that in itself wasn’t a secret. If Xykon had questioned him all he would have said was that Redcloak led a raid against the Resistance’s headquarters and recovered the amulet - which is the story Redcloak told Xykon. The spy presumably didn’t know that Redcloak was planning on keeping the real amulet and substituting a fake. Redcloak is walking too fine of a line to leave loose ends. Same reason he disintegrated the jeweler that made the fake. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7070 "2013-08-30T02:28:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Measure for Measure** : > > Well, at least we have a clearer idea why Nale was such a twist. Being constantly presented with (seemingly?) inanely motivated challenges would put a big chip on anyone’s shoulder. Sort of reminds me of Gilgamesh Wulfenbach that way… Though in his case, the twist seems to have been that the evil overlord’s son actually turned out to be a decent human being. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7071 "2013-08-30T02:34:37Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Redcloak is walking too fine of a line to leave loose ends. Same reason he disintegrated the jeweler that made the fake. The jeweler made sense. He obviously knew about the substitution. But that wasn’t true about the spy - all he knew was the cover story. It would have even made sense to revive him for that reason. Judging from the way Redcloak told Xykon about Tsukiko’s death, it appears very likely Xykon can tell when people are telling him the truth. So having the spy around - somebody who could truthfully testify that Redcloak got the amulet back from the Resistance just as he reported - would have helped Redcloak’s deception. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7072 "2013-08-30T06:29:51Z")
You know what I’ve discovered that is totally awesome? Read Malack in the voice of Dr. Henry Killinger from the _Venture Brothers_. Trust me on this. (If you are not familiar with The Venture Brothers you should rectify that situation.) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7073 "2013-08-30T18:25:24Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > I think he means Miron Shewdanker, the guy who sent the ransom note to Haley. I don’t know if that guy is a ninja, but I can see how he has the look of both a ninja and someone who might be related to Roy. If you look closely, you can see circles under the adviser’s eyes, indicating somewhat advanced age. So he probably isn’t Roy’s lost brother. Also, if he was related to Roy I would guess his feet would show greater size discrepancy (when seen from a certain angle of course). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7074 "2013-08-30T18:29:16Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > You know what I’ve discovered that is totally awesome? Read Malack in the voice of Dr. Henry Killinger from the _Venture Brothers_. Trust me on this. (If you are not familiar with The Venture Brothers you should rectify that situation.) Outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7075 "2013-08-30T18:36:35Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If you look closely, you can see circles under the adviser’s eyes, indicating somewhat advanced age. So he probably isn’t Roy’s lost brother. Also, if he was related to Roy I would guess his feet would show greater size discrepancy (when seen from a certain angle of course). All of team Tarquin (Well, the human members at least) must be at least approaching middle age, and probably well into it. They started adventuring together when Nale and Elan were toddlers. ETA: Glad you got a kick out of that, **Miller**. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7076 "2013-08-30T23:24:31Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > All of team Tarquin (Well, the human members at least) must be at least approaching middle age, and probably well into it. They started adventuring together when Nale and Elan were toddlers. > > ETA: Glad you got a kick out of that, **Miller**. Not [quite.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html) They were already approaching if not in middle age when Tarquin came up with his grand scheme. Even then, their adventuring was “back in the day.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7077 "2013-08-31T01:05:51Z")
Daddy Tarq wants our OotS to battle the snarl and gates so it doesn’t destroy his fifedom. Shows his lawfulness to boot. Elan is about to go off script and make Daddy Tarq’s life uncomfortable. What is the biggest influence in Elan’s life? Haley. As if a chess grandmaster he is light years of moves ahead of everybody and neutralized Haley and is counting on her to influencing Elan to do his ultamite bidding. I expect he will say next he will offer Ian his protection (if he doesn’t have him already) while Haley, Elan and the gang to go to the last gate. Of course Rich will confound me and my expectations and take the story in another direction that will make me want to kiss him smack on the mouth. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7078 "2013-08-31T10:15:38Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If you look closely, you can see circles under the adviser’s eyes, indicating somewhat advanced age. So he probably isn’t Roy’s lost brother. Also, if he was related to Roy I would guess his feet would show greater size discrepancy (when seen from a certain angle of course). I’ll concede the point about the feet (although that is weakened by the fact that it’s actually his _boots_ rather than his feet that show a difference). OTOH, Eugene is certainly old enough to have sired a son well before he married Roy’s mother, just from sowing wild oats. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7079 "2013-08-31T12:40:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The jeweler made sense. He obviously knew about the substitution. But that wasn’t true about the spy - all he knew was the cover story. > > It would have even made sense to revive him for that reason. Judging from the way Redcloak told Xykon about Tsukiko’s death, it appears very likely Xykon can tell when people are telling him the truth. So having the spy around - somebody who could truthfully testify that Redcloak got the amulet back from the Resistance just as he reported - would have helped Redcloak’s deception. I was wondering that too. Maybe it was because he couldn’t teleport himself AND the spy, since he can only do word-of-recall and not teleport, and he didn’t want anybody else to know he’d been there. But then, how he could have gone to Resistance HQ in the first place without anybody seeing him? Wind Walk? I don’t know, it just seems like an unsatisfying reason for him to use the phrasing “The exact details of what happened here need to remain between me and my god.” ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7080 "2013-08-31T19:32:59Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > I was wondering that too. Maybe it was because he couldn’t teleport himself AND the spy, since he can only do word-of-recall and not teleport, and he didn’t want anybody else to know he’d been there. But then, how he could have gone to Resistance HQ in the first place without anybody seeing him? Wind Walk? I don’t know, it just seems like an unsatisfying reason for him to use the phrasing “The exact details of what happened here need to remain between me and my god.” You’re not thinking like Redcloak. One, the best way to keep a secret is without help. Two, in light of his mission, everyone is expendable. That guy added no value, and his potential for detriment, no matter how small, does not tip the balance. Redcloak does not have the underlying respect for life necessary to think the way you assume he should. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7081 "2013-08-31T20:32:03Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > You’re not thinking like Redcloak. > > One, the best way to keep a secret is without help. > > Two, in light of his mission, everyone is expendable. > > That guy added no value, and his potential for detriment, no matter how small, does not tip the balance. > > Redcloak does not have the underlying respect for life necessary to think the way you assume he should. No, these things aren’t true. There was no secret being kept here - Redcloak went to Xykon and told him he had attacked the Resistance headquarters and recovered the amulet. Having a witness who could verify his story would have been useful because Xykon is naturally suspicious. And while Redcloak hates humans, he does value goblin lives. He’s willing to sacrifice them for what he sees as the greater good but not without a good reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=353) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=355)