# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 367
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7322 "2013-09-11T20:44:16Z")
[I called it.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16433811#post16433811) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7323 "2013-09-11T22:15:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Cleaning up the shards of the plasma tv she destroyed, I’d guess. Well, that, and taking the opportunity to show off her ass to the Directors. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7324 "2013-09-11T22:27:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, that, and taking the opportunity to show off her ass to the Directors. Sure, but as a succubus that’s practically a job requirement. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7325 "2013-09-11T22:29:00Z")
A half-fiendish Teevo should be a teevling, no? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7326 "2013-09-11T23:10:57Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > A half-fiendish Teevo should be a teevling, no? _\_😃 ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7327 "2013-09-12T01:59:12Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > A half-fiendish Teevo should be a teevling, no? Dunno, but i do know it will always stop recording 30 seconds before your show ends. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7328 "2013-09-12T03:55:37Z")
Heh, I missed the strip title the first time: “These last few are all from the same sender.” Which would be Roy and now Haley, offing Tarquin’s army. ETA: it doesn’t seem like a given that those soldiers would all be lawful, or even necessarily Evil. They’re getting paid to be soldiers, so they soldier. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7329 "2013-09-12T04:36:43Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > ETA: it doesn’t seem like a given that those soldiers would all be lawful, or even necessarily Evil. They’re getting paid to be soldiers, so they soldier. Well, by helmet identification, it looks like only a dozen or so near the top are from the army. The rest of the pile is from the earlier part of the week. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7330 "2013-09-12T04:38:23Z")
One would at least expect that a fair number of Tarquin’s soldiers would be lawful evil. And we’re not shown the inboxes of any other afterlife-- Maybe those have a few too. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7331 "2013-09-12T05:00:17Z")
The Giant speaks > **[\[Evil Inbox\] Weren't the Soldiers Just Following Orders?](https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?302862-Evil-Inbox-Weren-t-the-Soldiers-Just-Following-Orders&s=add7b7a711ea80e8f4f5af63885011e9&p=16003715#post16003715)** > > Slightly tongue in cheek title, but I think its slightly appropriate since it forms a nice contrast with the fact that the Deva cites the Yamashi.ta Standard aka Principle IV of the Nuremberg Principles in regards to Roy tolerated a Token Evil PC on... ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7332 "2013-09-12T05:06:09Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > ETA: it doesn’t seem like a given that those soldiers would all be lawful, or even necessarily Evil. They’re getting paid to be soldiers, so they soldier. Not caring who you kill as long as you get paid _is_ Evil. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7333 "2013-09-12T05:14:33Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Not caring who you kill as long as you get paid _is_ Evil. Nonsense. Let’s set aside “as long as you get paid” - all professional soldiers get paid. But all soldiers follow orders, and if they’re told to kill someone, they do. They don’t get to ask why. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7334 "2013-09-12T05:30:51Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Nonsense. Let’s set aside “as long as you get paid” - all professional soldiers get paid. But all soldiers follow orders, and if they’re told to kill someone, they do. They don’t get to ask why. Have you been living under a rock for the past seventy years? A soldier is both morally and legally obligated to refuse an illegitimate order - “orders are orders” does not cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7335 "2013-09-12T07:06:32Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Not caring who you kill as long as you get paid _is_ Evil. Arguable and debatable. > [@Grumman](#): > > Have you been living under a rock for the past seventy years? A soldier is both morally and legally obligated to refuse an illegitimate order - “orders are orders” does not cut it. I’m not sure the last 70 years of US history are the final authority with regards to the alignment system of a fictional comic based upon an RPG game derived from a medieval fantasy setting. Just saying. Also, the US doesn’t currently permit conscientious objection on a per-conflict basis. That said, I have some sympathy for the sentiments expressed. > [@Larry Borgia](#): > > I’m astonished Tarquin’s soldiers have any loyalty to him. ## Burlew handled this with his usual precision in today’s comic. ## I usually don’t laugh at Elan’s jokes, but I did today. He earned a “Straight Brow” expression from Daddy Tarquin. > [@Knorf](#): > > As I much as I’ve enjoyed this character, I’ve really had quite enough of him. It’s time for him to go, which, as he himself set up, can only mean go away permanently. ## I’ve noticed that Burlew makes his characters a little more unpleasant before they are offed (think of Malack and his blood assembly line and Nale being a dick). That said, I somehow find it hard to imagine Tarq dying within the next 10 pages. ## Could Elan create an illusion of a monster (eg the Dragon Empress) emerge from the rift? ## ETA: Q: Why does Sabine hit it off with V? (A:Why not? A2: Oh yeah, she’s hoping V will kick Tarq’s posterior. Hard.) If Oots escapes on a flying carpet, I’d expect Tarquin to study the rift and drop a few minions inside it to see what happens. A higher level expedition might follow. * * * **This story is a mess!!** Tarquin would be _furious_ if he realized what a genre-bender his author is. The story has multiple villains (with Tarquin playing a sub-boss - the nerve of that author!) as well as fleshed out sidekicks - too much extraneous detail he would say. More deeply… I’m rooting for Red-cloak: I’d like to see the gate put into the hands of the Dark One, so that the goblinoid millions might aspire to something other than cannon fodder. It’s worth a shot. Future plot twists aside, this is actually a pretty complex tale. I can’t recall ever favoring a villain’s goals over that of the protagonist for most of an enjoyable story. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7336 "2013-09-12T08:20:09Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > ETA: Q: Why does Sabine hit it off with V? (A:Why not? A2: Oh yeah, she’s hoping V will kick Tarq’s posterior. Hard.) It goes[way back.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7337 "2013-09-12T14:01:47Z")
I wonder if V is going to try and get some anti-scrying defences so that the Three won’t know what he / she’s doing? V is 15th level so Mind Blank is a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7338 "2013-09-12T14:05:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I wonder if V is going to try and get some anti-scrying defences so that the Three won’t know what he / she’s doing? V is 15th level so Mind Blank is a possibility. Do we know exactly what level V is? I thought they were all just “somewhere around 13-15.” And surely if the demiplane that Roy’s dad is trapped on can scry right through Xykon’s Epic-level Cloister spell, the three archfiends would have no problem watching Vaarsuvius regardless of any attempt at defenses … right? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7339 "2013-09-12T15:02:17Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I wonder if V is going to try and get some anti-scrying defences so that the Three won’t know what he / she’s doing? V is 15th level so Mind Blank is a possibility. > [@chorpler](#): > > Do we know exactly what level V is? I thought they were all just “somewhere around 13-15.” > > And surely if the demiplane that Roy’s dad is trapped on can scry right through Xykon’s Epic-level Cloister spell, the three archfiends would have no problem watching Vaarsuvius regardless of any attempt at defenses … right? I believe most of the characters have made it to level 15. Mind Blank might be annoying, but it’s easy enough to get around for the IFCC. If V casts Mind Blank on himself, then the fields just scry Blackwing, Roy, Haley, Elan, Durkon, and/or Belkar. The fiends aren’t trying to read his thoughts, so that’s not an issue, they just want to know what he’s up to. Worst case, they just make Qarr follow the Order around and report back. Not to mention, V only gets 1 8th level spell per day, so the Order is going to wonder why he keeps burning it on a Mind Blank every day. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7340 "2013-09-12T15:04:41Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I believe most of the characters have made it to level 15. Is there any reason they **must** be only at level 15 right now? Or could they be any higher than that if we assumed they were at the high end of the ranges Rich gave years back? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7341 "2013-09-12T15:25:43Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Is there any reason they **must** be only at level 15 right now? Or could they be any higher than that if we assumed they were at the high end of the ranges Rich gave years back? Well, [the class and level geekery thread](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282328) on the forums would be able to answer it better than I. And then think V is only level 15, not having showed any abilities that would indicate otherwise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=366) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=368)