# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 374
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7462 "2013-09-24T08:19:22Z")
We do know that Soon & co couldn’t bring Kraagor back after the Snarl killed him. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7463 "2013-09-24T08:37:19Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > We do know that Soon & co couldn’t bring Kraagor back after the Snarl killed him. Anyone else half-expecting to find Kraagor alive on the other side at some point? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7464 "2013-09-24T08:37:20Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > We do know that Soon & co couldn’t bring Kraagor back after the Snarl killed him. If there was really ever a Snarl, which I’m not certain of now. I’m almost certain that Kraagor made it to “Snarl World”, (for wont of a better name), and we will meet him when, (not if) the OotStick enter. Whilst I think the OotScr would have tried to save/retrieve Kraggor if they thought it possible I can imagine the situation appearing to be a case of K touches the portal, appears to disappear soul and all, gate back is somewhere K can’t get back to, although he made it safely though. From Scribble’s perspective K has been obliterated. The Snarl line was probably just fed to them by the gods, the pictures of the Snarl provided to mirror (wotshisnameagaintheoldguywiththecat)'s story ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7465 "2013-09-24T08:38:20Z")
I guess that’s a “yes” then. Ninja! ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7466 "2013-09-24T09:28:23Z")
Wait, didn’t Kragor die because he got caught in the blast radius of something (and presumably didn’t make his save)? [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) So he wasn’t unmade by the snarl or anything. EDIT: ah, he was sealed by the snarl sealing spell. Although we do know that the snarl can kill gods. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7467 "2013-09-24T10:43:31Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > EDIT: ah, he was sealed by the snarl sealing spell. Although we do know that the snarl can kill gods. We know that the gods claim that something called “the Snarl” can kill gods. Or more precisly we know Shogo claims that his predecessor claimed that his predecessor claimed… …that the Snarl can kill gods. Personally I think that what Shogo told OotS was absolute truth as he understood it, and exactly as Soon and the rest of OotScri believed was the case. I think it is certainly a lie by the gods though. How big a lie, and whether the Snarl even exists, is yet to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7468 "2013-09-24T13:01:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > We know that the gods claim that something called “the Snarl” can kill gods. Or more precisly we know Shogo claims that his predecessor claimed that his predecessor claimed… …that the Snarl can kill gods. But we also know that the Dark One told Redcloak that the Snarl can kill gods. And there’s nothing which could make the Dark One _want_ to lie about this, because it is either a form of power that improves the Dark One’s bargaining position, or it isn’t and the Dark One wouldn’t bother trying to control it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7469 "2013-09-24T13:52:34Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > But we also know that the Dark One told Redcloak that the Snarl can kill gods. Whilst I also don’t think the Dark One is playing a fully honest game with Redcloak, (I haven’t read SoD so I’m only going on the one strip in the main comic, plus side discussions about the events in SoD), the Dark One wasn’t present during the creation of the world and so doesn’t know exactly what went down, he is also relying on what he has been told. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7470 "2013-09-24T13:55:18Z")
I can’t help but wonder if the whole Snarl thing is just a McGuffin. The gods and the Dark One are playing a game, and using everybody as pawns. (Of course they are, silly. But I mean literally.) Whoever gets control of the Snarl “wins” the point for that side, and the loser owes the winner $1. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7471 "2013-09-24T14:46:56Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Whilst I also don’t think the Dark One is playing a fully honest game with Redcloak, (I haven’t read SoD so I’m only going on the one strip in the main comic, plus side discussions about the events in SoD), the Dark One wasn’t present during the creation of the world and so doesn’t know exactly what went down, he is also relying on what he has been told. And of course it’s possible that whatever the Snarl was, it is no longer. Perhaps it has decided to become a god itself and created a world of its own to rule over within the confines of its “prison”. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7472 "2013-09-24T16:20:45Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > We know that the gods claim that something called “the Snarl” can kill gods. Or more precisly we know Shogo claims that his predecessor claimed that his predecessor claimed… …that the Snarl can kill gods. Personally I think that what Shogo told OotS was absolute truth as he understood it, and exactly as Soon and the rest of OotScri believed was the case. I think it is certainly a lie by the gods though. How big a lie, and whether the Snarl even exists, is yet to be seen. If ‘The Snarl’ did not kill the Olympians, then who or what did? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7473 "2013-09-24T16:47:16Z")
I don’t have an answer to **Gagundather** ’s question. But I’m rereading #[275](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html) and was struck by this: > [@Shojo](#): > > The gods had been clever and built their planet to exist in multiple coterminus dimensions, thus blocking the only vibrational frequencies the Snarl could have used to escape from its cell. So the planet at the time of creation existed in multiple dimensions. Has breaking the gates weakened the dimensional locks, causing multiple (once identical?) versions of this planet to exist, one in each dimension? Is that what the gates are showing us in the comic? Will we some day meet OOTS-prime on the other side? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7474 "2013-09-24T17:05:05Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Anyone else half-expecting to find Kraagor alive on the other side at some point? And the first thing Durkon says when he sees him is “Dad?” Okay, not going to happen. The strip has a pretty solid chronology and Durkon was born ten years after Kraagor disappeared/died. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7475 "2013-09-24T17:09:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Anyone else half-expecting to find Kraagor alive on the other side at some point? Are dwarves long enough lived for him to even be alive? Soon and Girard died of old age; [Soon died when Shojo was a child](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html), so it’s been many, many years since Kraagor was “snarled”. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7476 "2013-09-24T17:15:34Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Are dwarves long enough lived for him to even be alive? Soon and Girard died of old age; [Soon died when Shojo was a child](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html), so it’s been many, many years since Kraagor was “snarled”. Yes, I think Dwarves are fairly long lived. In comic #732, Durkon says he’s 55 years ald. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7477 "2013-09-24T17:17:49Z")
Dwarves can live to be over four hundred years old. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7478 "2013-09-24T17:21:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Dwarves can live to be over four hundred years old. In 3.5 rules, or Tolkien? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7479 "2013-09-24T17:31:16Z")
First one, then the other. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7480 "2013-09-24T18:01:27Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > If ‘The Snarl’ did not kill the Olympians, then who or what did? What Olympians 🙂 Remember, Durkon the cleric had never heard of the Olympians until Shojo mentioned them, and if a cleric hasn’t, fair to say most of the common people haven’t either (as showed by Roy’s reaction). This is not to say I think the Snarl story is a fabrication, just that there isn’t any evidence for it outside of one old man’s story. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7481 "2013-09-24T18:49:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > First one, then the other. Although in Middle-Earth it was notable that Dain Ironfoot was considered elderly at the age of 250-odd, and when he died during the War of the Ring Gandalf mourned, but also rejoiced that the old king was still in good enough shape to go down fighting in quite grand style standing over the body of his friend and neighbour Brand son of Bain son of Bard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=373) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=375)