# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 387
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7722 "2013-10-21T16:18:52Z")
I take it V can’t cast when encumbered by Haley, right? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7723 "2013-10-21T16:19:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Correct. Haste is the bee’s knees. [sucks now](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7724 "2013-10-21T16:38:31Z")
It did use to flat out double attacks rather than just add one. Which was sort of a little kinda completely \*nuts \*(even if the downside was “your character ages 1 year”) :). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7725 "2013-10-21T16:51:03Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I take it V can’t cast when encumbered by Haley, right? Nope, he’s probably fine. Even if the DM considers s/he’s Grappling Haley right now, spellcasting is not hindered. But if she were _dead_, then he could cast no matter what, because then she’d count as equipment rather than a character :). We had a similar situation arise in my last \*Pathfinder \*game : our Cleric wanted to teleport our party out of the dungeon, but couldn’t because her spell was 4 targets max, and there’s 4 of us but one is Large Size (and thus counts as 2 people for the purpose). However, had one of us been dead and carried by another, then we could have teleported just fine :D. We also riffed on the impossibility of teleporting entire armies, but the very real possibility of killing an army, shoving them all inside a Bag of Holding, then casting Mass Resurrect when we reached our destination :p. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7726 "2013-10-21T17:27:20Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > We also riffed on the impossibility of teleporting entire armies, but the very real possibility of killing an army, shoving them all inside a Bag of Holding, then casting Mass Resurrect when we reached our destination :p. I’m probably going to regret asking this, but why couldn’t you put a live army in the Bag of Holding? Roy has a bag of live critters, so apparently it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7727 "2013-10-21T17:42:04Z")
Well, technically you can put a live army inside a bag of holding, however there’s no air on the inside, so they’d all die of suffocation anyway. Don’t ask me why, I just maul things in tiger form. Roy’s Bag of Tricks is something else entirely. There are no actual critters \*stored \*in it, but putting your hand inside gets you a ball of fur that, once tossed at something, turns into a random live critter (or summons a live critter, opinions differ). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7728 "2013-10-21T17:42:11Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I’m probably going to regret asking this, but why couldn’t you put a live army in the Bag of Holding? Not enough air. > [@](#): > > Roy has a bag of live critters, so apparently it’s possible. Roy’s bag o’ critters works a bit differently. His bag summons an animal into his hand every time he reaches into it - the animals aren’t “in” the bag waiting o be pulled out. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7729 "2013-10-21T17:50:41Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > We also riffed on the impossibility of teleporting entire armies, but the very real possibility of killing an army, shoving them all inside a Bag of Holding, then casting Mass Resurrect when we reached our destination :p. The protagonist in Erfworld pulled something similar–you can see him preparing to do it on this [page](http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2013-06-29.jpg). Only casters (and Parson, who’s a special case) can go through the portals to the Magic Kingdom without being killed. He can, however, carry the corpses from the recent battle through so that Wanda, the croakamancer, can decrypt them on the other side. (Yes, “croakamancer” and “decrypt”. The comic is like that.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7730 "2013-10-21T17:53:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Kobal2** : > > It did use to flat out double attacks rather than just add one. Which was sort of a little kinda completely nuts (even if the downside was “your character ages 1 year”) That was the second edition Haste spell. Zz’dtri was probably referring to the change from 3.0 to 3.5, though: In 3.0, Haste gave you an extra standard action, which could be used for an extra attack… or could also be used for an extra spell. Since spellcasters are extremely powerful, this was bonkers. On the other hand, though, in 3.0, Haste only affected one creature, while in 3.5, it can boost the whole party, which (if you’re not trying to hog the spotlight) is even better. Speaking of such things, > [@](#): > > Psions have an universal pool of points to spend however the fuck they want, with more powerful effects costing more points. Much more flexible. In theory, psion powers are also supposed to be less powerful than spells to balance it all out ; in practice psions are overpowered as all getout. Both statements are true: Psion powers are less powerful than wizard spells, and they’re overpowered as all getout. It’s just that wizards are even _more_ overpowered than all getout. In practice, psions end up being about comparable to sorcerers. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7731 "2013-10-21T18:03:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That was the second edition Haste spell. Zz’dtri was probably referring to the change from 3.0 to 3.5, though: In 3.0, Haste gave you an extra standard action, which could be used for an extra attack… or could also be used for an extra spell. Since spellcasters are extremely powerful, this was bonkers. Ah, I didn’t know that, I went straight from 2nd to 3.5. Thatis indeed bonkers. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7732 "2013-10-22T07:48:57Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Only casters (and Parson, who’s a special case) can go through the portals to the Magic Kingdom without being killed. He’s not a special case - he\* is\* a [caster](http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_59) (Mathamancy? Or is that just the bracer?) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7733 "2013-10-22T09:54:48Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I’m probably going to regret asking this, but why couldn’t you put a live army in the Bag of Holding? Roy has a bag of live critters, so apparently it’s possible. Apart from the lack of air, it has limited space and a maximum weight. You can’t put an army in 250 cubic feet. > **[Magic item (Dungeons & Dragons)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bag_of_holding#Description)** > > In the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game, a magic item is any object that is imbued with magic powers. These items may act on their own or be the tools of the character possessing them. Magic items have been prevalent in the game in every edition and setting, from the original edition in 1974 until the modern fifth edition. In addition to jewels and gold coins, they form part of the treasure that the players often seek in a dungeon. Magic items are generally found in treasure hoard In... ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7734 "2013-10-22T15:02:04Z")
New strip #926 [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html) ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7735 "2013-10-22T15:29:03Z")
The new version of Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator is super cute. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7736 "2013-10-22T15:39:46Z")
I think Burlew has a thing for drawing Roy hitting his head with his feet in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7737 "2013-10-22T15:43:28Z")
Okay, even with a high-level psion’s power pool, that many wormholes has to be somewhat draining. No wonder she’s looking annoyed. > [@MrDibble](#): > > He’s not a special case - he\* is\* a [caster](http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_59) (Mathamancy? Or is that just the bracer?) He is a warlord. If he is also a caster, that by definition makes him a special case. The Mathamancy is just the bracer. Janis claimed he was a Hippiemancer, but she was covering for him on behalf of the conspiracy. Surviving the portals and being (apparently) able to read a spell scroll suggest that he has caster status, but we don’t know what kind–and that discussion is better suited to Erf threads, where it has been beaten to death, decrypted, and beaten again. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7738 "2013-10-22T15:55:21Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Okay, even with a high-level psion’s power pool, that many wormholes has to be somewhat draining. No wonder she’s looking annoyed. By my count, that’s 8 portals she’s opened today - one for the army, two last strip, and 5 this strip. Using the 343 PP mentioned upthread (which assumes she’s epic level), and the 19PP cost also mentioned upthread, Laurin’s used 152 of her 343PP, or a little under half. Add in whatever she zapped Haley with (and whatever she did to read Nale’s mind) and she’s probably got 150PP or so left. Which seems like plenty given that the Order is pretty beat up. Not to mention Miron probably has the majority of his spells left, and Tarquin is full up on HP. Now, Durkula could probably solo Miron or Laurin at this point, but the rest of the order is going to be hard pressed against a full caster and Tarquin the buff daddy. Really think it’s time for Elan’s plan to go into action… ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7739 "2013-10-22T16:19:53Z")
Don’t forget that Laurin also disintegrated Nale’s body. ETA: Also, she opened a 9th wormhole for [Miron and Kilkil](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html) to arrive from Bleedingham. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7740 "2013-10-22T16:25:18Z")
But she may have items with points stored in them. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7741 "2013-10-22T17:28:10Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I think that’s Entropic Shield, a low level cleric spell that grants 20% chance to flat out ignore a projectile attack. Since Miron seems to be an arcane caster, that’s probably just a regular ol’ _Shield_ spell, providing +4 AC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=386) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=388)