# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 388
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7742 "2013-10-22T17:35:39Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Don’t forget that Laurin also disintegrated Nale’s body. > > ETA: Also, she opened a 9th wormhole for [Miron and Kilkil](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html) to arrive from Bleedingham. > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > But she may have items with points stored in them. Psionic Disintegrate is 11PP, plus 19 for another wormhole (what’s the psionic wormhole spell called, actually?), puts her at closer to 120 or so. Although, all that assumes she’s level 20. If she’s level 17 she only has one or two more spells worth of PP left. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7743 "2013-10-22T17:38:57Z")
Does D&D have any penalties for just being tired? Roy has already fought an army, a sand golem, and the Linear Guild a couple of times. Or do healing potions take care of that run down feeling too? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7744 "2013-10-22T18:04:02Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Does D&D have any penalties for just being tired? Roy has already fought an army, a sand golem, and the Linear Guild a couple of times. Or do healing potions take care of that run down feeling too? Not really. There are two conditions that your character can get (Fatigued and Exhausted) which give you maluses to physical attributes ; however merely fighting won’t make you either. Pretty much you’re good to go until you’ve either caught a spell, trap, effect, ability… that causes these status effects ; or I believe sleep deprivation also does it. Fighting all day without breaking a sweat is just what heroes do 🙂 (as an aside, I started my PnP roleplaying career with _Rolemaster_, a game which tried to implement a combat fatigue system. It was annoying as hell to count exactly how many rounds of combat you’d done that day… and the thresholds were high enough that you never ever got tired anyway :rolleyes:) [QUOTE=Lightray] Since Miron seems to be an arcane caster, that’s probably just a regular ol’ _Shield_ spell, providing +4 AC. [/QUOTE] Or he could have an item that casts it. Or he could be a mystic theurge. Or he could have splashed some Cleric levels. Or… But yeah, you’re probably right 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7745 "2013-10-22T21:47:30Z")
I wonder if Elan’s plan is to convince his father that he’s the romantic hero and to let Roy be the action hero? Somehow, I doubt he’s thought that all the way through as isn’t it usually the case that the latter gives his life for the former near the end of the story? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7746 "2013-10-22T22:31:47Z")
Elan’s plan required Durkon’s help, for reasons that are not yet clear. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7747 "2013-10-23T01:44:20Z")
Hmm, TowelFace just cast Greater Dispel Magic. I wonder if Tarquin will direct him to do the same to Durkon in a pinch. Then I guess we’ll see if that staff still holds the sunlight abjuration. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7748 "2013-10-23T06:16:40Z")
Can True Form reverse Baleful Polymorph? An instant allosaur could be handy. I’m probably reading too far into this, but it seems to me that protagonists can’t be changed midstream in a classically constructed work of fiction. So Tarquin is tilting at windmills: if Roy is the hero, then Roy is the hero. Also, I’m wondering if Elan’s secret plan involves comedy. With Tarquin cast in the less-than-dignified role of straight man. Could a cleric provide a laugh track? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7749 "2013-10-23T06:27:21Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Can True Form reverse Baleful Polymorph? An instant allosaur could be handy. I was wondering the same: what would revert the allosaur to an allosaur? Is it a remove-enchantment type thing? Or is the allosaur now truly a lizard, and no more than that? ETA: M4M I love your speculation re protagonists. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7750 "2013-10-23T07:00:41Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I was wondering the same: what would revert the allosaur to an allosaur? Is it a remove-enchantment type thing? Or is the allosaur now truly a lizard, and no more than that? Baleful Polymorph is a “Permanent” effect (as opposed to an “Instantaneous” effect), which means that it is only the magic holding the allosaur in that form. Hit it with a Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment and the spell keeping the allosaur as a lizard ends. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7751 "2013-10-23T12:49:33Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Elan’s plan required Durkon’s help, for reasons that are not yet clear. Elan’s plan required Dukon’s help when he was still alive. I wonder if Durkon will still be able to help now that his spell set has changed a bit. Durkon’s not casting Thor’s Might anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7752 "2013-10-23T13:31:42Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Elan’s plan required Dukon’s help when he was still alive. I wonder if Durkon will still be able to help now that his spell set has changed a bit. Durkon’s not casting Thor’s Might anytime soon. Elan had a plan to defeat Tarquin. It required Durkon’s help. The details of the plan were not revealed to the audience. Elan has a need to defeat Tarquin, something very Durkon-like to hand, the details of the plan still have not been revealed and the end of the book is rapidly approaching. If Elan doesn’t use the plan successfully right here and now, I’ll eat one of your hats. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7753 "2013-10-23T15:33:33Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Elan’s plan required Dukon’s help when he was still alive. I wonder if Durkon will still be able to help now that his spell set has changed a bit. Durkon’s not casting Thor’s Might anytime soon. One speculation I’ve heard is that he’ll get himself killed on purpose, with with the prior agreement with Durkon (who has enough diamond dust to Resurrect [one person left](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0845.html)) that he’ll _only_ accept being raised by him (since the dead can tell who is trying to raise them). So if Tarquin kills off the OOTS, Elan’s gone permanently; if he spares the OOTS Elan can come back. Tarquin: "Surely you wouldn’t leave Elan dead if I only killed _Roy…"_ Durkon: “Vampire. Lawful Evil. And that was the agreement.” Tarquin: “…I see.” ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7754 "2013-10-23T15:46:35Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Elan had a plan to defeat Tarquin. It required Durkon’s help. The details of the plan were not revealed to the audience. Elan has a need to defeat Tarquin, something very Durkon-like to hand, the details of the plan still have not been revealed and the end of the book is rapidly approaching. If Elan doesn’t use the plan successfully right here and now, I’ll eat one of your hats. True enough. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that I think Elan’s plan is going to fail because Durkon’s a vampire now. I’m just wondering if Elan is going to have to change the plan on the fly to compensate for vamp Durkon. Or if Rich will milk the situation for comedy, as Elan scrambles to fix the plan and keeps trying to exploit “old” Durkon’s abilities. ETA: I guess my original post was really suggesting that Elan’s plan might fail because of Durkon being a vampire now, but on reflection, I agree that that seems very unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7755 "2013-10-23T15:47:07Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > (since the dead can tell who is trying to raise them) I thought it was you can tell the alignment of the one raising you, not the specific person. Hence the pyramid mummies refusing to be rezzed by Durkon who was (at the time) the same alignment as Soon’s Lawful Good paladins. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7756 "2013-10-23T16:20:26Z")
You can tell both, but the name “Durkon Thundershield” wouldn’t mean anything to a Draketooth, so all they really had to go on was alignment. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7757 "2013-10-23T18:54:51Z")
I love the “only Durkon can rez Elan” idea. They don’t even have to do it, just threaten to. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7758 "2013-10-23T19:38:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I’m probably reading too far into this, but it seems to me that protagonists can’t be changed midstream in a classically constructed work of fiction. Well, well, well. Look who hasn’t read Game of Thrones! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7759 "2013-10-23T19:59:33Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > He is a warlord. If he is also a caster, that by definition makes him a special case. Every caster is, by definition, a warlord. Just not usually a _Chief_ Warlord. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7760 "2013-10-23T20:22:37Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I wonder if Elan’s plan is to convince his father that he’s the romantic hero and to let Roy be the action hero? Somehow, I doubt he’s thought that all the way through as isn’t it usually the case that the latter gives his life for the former near the end of the story? > [@squeegee](#): > > Elan’s plan required Durkon’s help, for reasons that are not yet clear. Pretty sure it doesn’t involve persuading Targuin to let him be anything other than the sole hero. When Elan formulated that plan, he didn’t know that was a motivating issue for Tarquin. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7761 "2013-10-23T20:38:38Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > ETA: I guess my original post was really suggesting that Elan’s plan might fail because of Durkon being a **vampire** now, but on **reflection** , I agree that that seems very unlikely. I saw what you did, there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=387) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=389)