# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 399
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7962 "2013-11-12T15:45:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Actually, that’s exactly what it means. A lawful character believes in following a code of conduct. A lawful good code of conduct is going to frown on killing helpless foes. Probably, so is a lawful neutral one, and possibly so is a lawful evil one. I’d argue that a monk strangling someone in their sleep is as much an alignment violation as a paladin cutting the throat of an unconscious bandit. Or, for that matter, Roy lopping off the heads of sleeping goblins. The difference between Roy, and a monk or a paladin, is that there’s no consequence to Roy for violating his alignment. Didn’t we have this conversation already? I tried to point out that Durkon’s slaying of a helpless “Z” was a questionable act, and I got links to Roy “Coup-de-gras”-ing helpless goblins as proof that it’s ok to slay helpless [presumedly] evil dudes. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7963 "2013-11-13T20:20:51Z")
[New strip.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0930.html) I did not see that one coming. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7964 "2013-11-13T20:21:00Z")
[New strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0930.html) Edit: Zounds! Curses to your nimble fingers! ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7965 "2013-11-13T20:25:32Z")
Did anyone predict _that_? I certainly did not. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7966 "2013-11-13T20:25:34Z")
Which, frankly, is about as hokey as this guy dropping in. Well, what do we think: is this a literal Deus ex Mechane? (Christ, I was so sick of reading that term at the OOTS forums. Way to dump a tanker full of gasoline on that fire, Burlew.) ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7967 "2013-11-13T20:30:40Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Man, if there was ever a cavalry moment, this is it. And, here it is! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7968 "2013-11-13T20:33:38Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Which, frankly, is about as hokey as this guy dropping in. > > Well, what do we think: is this a literal Deus ex Mechane? > > (Christ, I was so sick of reading that term at the OOTS forums. Way to dump a tanker full of gasoline on that fire, Burlew.) It’s worth remembering that the OOTS strip, for all its emotion and drama, is fundamentally a comic. Rule of funny. I find the new strip funny. And it’s not a poor example of a [deus ex machina](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina), because Elan’s relationship with his new father surrogate was well established long ago, and on the contrary is rather a good example because it sets up a comic situation. ETA: and worth it for the pun alone. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7969 "2013-11-13T20:42:39Z")
But Julio himself said he would probably die the next time Elan sees him. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7970 "2013-11-13T20:42:43Z")
So it looks like the reappearance of Julio Scoundrél _was_ predicted by some—mostly some dismissed as loonies—over in the OOTS forums. But it’s true there were lots of hints. I am holding my brain fully accountable for having failed to notice them! In other news, looks like Durkon’s not going to follow in his sire’s footsteps. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7971 "2013-11-13T20:42:55Z")
So can we assume that Durkon is saved by the airship shade? Would that be sufficient? Seems like it shouldn’t be (“Sure, you can go out at noon, just take this parasol”) but Durkon seems to be looking at the patch of shadow its casting. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7972 "2013-11-13T20:43:48Z")
So Elan arranged a Send with Durkon, right? (And Durkon should be Vampire dust in direct sunlight after 2 rounds, for which I am suspending my disbelief. 🙂 ) I thought the strip was great. Elan bests Tarquin in panel 1. The plan works according to longstanding (_really_ longstanding) dramatic tradition. And it’s incredibly lame! Totally Elan! Anyway that’s Tarquin’s choice. He can retreat and rule an empire or keep to his current path and become a straight man in a comic routine. Not very dignified but hey, his decision. There’s also a funny subtext: what the hell is going on with this story? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7973 "2013-11-13T20:44:39Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > But Julio himself said he would probably die the next time Elan sees him. ☹ Yes, sadly that seems likely. Hopefully he’ll take Tarquin with him! With lots of puns. For sure the puns will happen, and also I’m ruefully optimistic that, whatever happens to Julio, it’s curtains for Tarquin. Julio is the only other character with anything like the genre-savviness of Tarquin and Elan. Really, should have seen it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7974 "2013-11-13T20:52:20Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > It’s worth remembering that the OOTS strip, for all its emotion and drama, is fundamentally a comic. Rule of funny. > > I find the new strip funny. And it’s not a poor example of a [deus ex machina](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina), because Elan’s relationship with his new father surrogate was well established long ago, and on the contrary is rather a good example because it sets up a comic situation. > > ETA: and worth it for the pun alone. I’m still wondering how a friggin’ blimp is supposed to sneak up on Tarquin & Co. In a desert without a cloud in the sky. None of the pterosaur riders saw it before getting waxed by V? Just was tired of constantly reading how every plot twist was a DxM, and 10 pages of “No it isn’t! Yes it is!” Rinse/repeat. Jesus, find something else to argue about already. I probably should take a break from reading both the forums and the strip. The pun duel and “how many allusions to the Obi Wan/Darth Vader fight is Burlew going to cram into this match, if he uses any at all?” should be interesting though. If you’re Laurin, do you bail out now, and drag Tarquin with you back home? I wonder how her favor is going to intersect with this fight? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7975 "2013-11-13T20:53:18Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > So Elan arranged a Send with Durkon, right? (And Durkon should be Vampire dust in direct sunlight after 2 rounds, for which I am suspending my disbelief. 🙂 ) No, it’s cool. Monologging is a free action. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7976 "2013-11-13T20:56:57Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > IJust was tired of constantly reading how every plot twist was a DxM, and 10 pages of “No it isn’t! Yes it is!” Rinse/repeat. Jesus, find something else to argue about already. I probably should take a break from reading both the forums and the strip. Yes, that’s why I don’t read the OOTS forums too much. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7977 "2013-11-13T20:59:16Z")
So about that pun: do you think Burlew was already planning on using Scoundrél in this situation way back then? The name of his airship is awfully convenient. I think he was. Deus ex [Mechane](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechane)! So very lame that I didn’t pick up on this long ago. ETA: really, I’d place this on the short (very short) list for the “Award for Most Creative Use of a Deus ex machina in a comedic context.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7978 "2013-11-13T21:07:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > So can we assume that Durkon is saved by the airship shade? Would that be sufficient? Seems like it shouldn’t be (“Sure, you can go out at noon, just take this parasol”) but Durkon seems to be looking at the patch of shadow its casting. Hell, _“Stay under the parasol”_ works pretty well for MitD. Also: HUZZAH! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7979 "2013-11-13T21:19:40Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Hell, _“Stay under the parasol”_ works pretty well for MitD. > > Also: HUZZAH! Yeah but as far as we know, sunlight isn’t deadly to the MitD. Or even a reveal, even if it’d piss Xykon off to miss out on drama :). FWIW, SRD does state “direct sunlinght”. If he’s under a blimp, he doesn’t catch any of that, does he ? There’s precedent, too : Spike used to get around Sunnydale under an old blankie, and he barely smoked :D. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7980 "2013-11-13T21:39:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > So can we assume that Durkon is saved by the airship shade? Would that be sufficient? Seems like it shouldn’t be (“Sure, you can go out at noon, just take this parasol”) but Durkon seems to be looking at the patch of shadow its casting. A blimp is awful big compared to a parasol; it would be quite hard to cover your entire body with its shade. And recall how Thrall-Durkon was able to walk around inside the pyramid without Protection From Daylight and with unblocked windows and didn’t smolder until stepping into direct sunlight. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/7981 "2013-11-13T21:53:56Z")
So, the titles “Go” and “Through”, for the last two strips, were teases and are not the beginning of a phrase. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=398) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=400)