# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![TheFaerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TheFaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFaerie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/781 "2010-05-11T21:52:32Z")
Miko maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/782 "2010-05-11T21:52:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have my suspicions. Do you suspect [this guy?](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) 'Cause that’s who I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/783 "2010-05-11T21:56:31Z")
Actually, I suspect [this guy](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html). Bit of a longshot, I know, but wouldn’t it be awesome? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/784 "2010-05-11T22:03:11Z")
> [@TheFaerie](#): > > Miko maybe? That would be awesome, mostly because I love the character of Miko for many reasons. But she seems to be all-the-way, permanently dead, so I sincerely doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/785 "2010-05-11T22:37:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Do you suspect [this guy?](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) I finally got the joke in that strip, because a bard IS functionally a fighter/rogue/sorcerer who specializes in enchantment spells. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/786 "2010-05-12T00:07:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Actually, I suspect [this guy](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html). Bit of a longshot, I know, but wouldn’t it be awesome? Unfortunately, he’s sincerely hoping he never crosses paths with Elan again, because he’s just as genre-aware as Elan is. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/787 "2010-05-12T00:07:30Z")
> [@Captain Amazing; 12442538](#): > > I finally got the joke in that strip, because a bard IS functionally a fighter/rogue/sorcerer who specializes in enchantment spells. And I finally got it because of what you just posted. So is a multi-classed . . . what you said – underpowered, as a bard is rumored to be? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/788 "2010-05-12T00:37:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > [New one.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html) > > So who’s beneath the General’s mask? I bet it’s someone we know. It’s a new character. Seriously, there’s a difference between speculation and wild-assed guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/789 "2010-05-12T00:50:19Z")
> [@](#): > > So is a multi-classed . . . what you said – underpowered, as a bard is rumored to be? Basically, it’s worse than a bard in every possible way. Elan has more spells (both per-day and known, and a better selection of them), more skill points, a better attack bonus, and probably more HP than his brother. Bards aren’t actually underpowered at all, if you know how to play one, but that Frankenstein hodge-podge of classes is a classic example of munchkinry gone wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/790 "2010-05-12T01:21:12Z")
Of course, that hodge-podge was also the original way to create a bard in 2nd edition. Which is another layer of the joke. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/791 "2010-05-12T01:23:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Do you suspect [this guy?](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) > > 'Cause that’s who I suspect. Me too. See the similar helmet. Lawful Evil, too. Word of honor and all that. And interested in preserving _whichever_ son. Could be Elan and Nale’s half-brother, Lane, though. Or Alen. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/792 "2010-05-12T02:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > So who’s beneath the General’s mask? I bet it’s someone we know. > [@](#): > > It’s a new character. Seriously, there’s a difference between speculation and wild-assed guessing. You want to see wild-ass guessing?It’s Ian Starshine. He’s escaped captivity and taken over. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/793 "2010-05-12T05:55:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, that hodge-podge was also the original way to create a bard in 2nd edition. Which is another layer of the joke. 1st edition, actually. Even there, though, once you did your time in the crazy dual-classing, you were allowed to take levels in the bard class itself, which tied the pieces together. As to the General’s identity, keep in mind that this is someone willing to be subordinate to other authorities. And the helmets are similar, sure, but with that as the only identifying characteristic, if Rich had wanted them to be the same, they’d be the same. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/794 "2010-05-12T10:40:59Z")
No, there’s the ‘word of honor’ identifying characteristic. That’s Lawful Evil there. And the helmet and chest armor is similar without being the same. I’m betting on half-brother. Or Haley’s Dad. He’s got to show up here, they’re in the ‘right’ area. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/795 "2010-05-12T11:20:36Z")
I dunno. I’m as intrigued as anyone else about the man behind the big helmet, but I don’t see Haley’s father knocking her out of a high tower window. Based on what we know now, I’m leaning towards a member of Elan’s family if it’s in fact someone we either know or is closely connected to a known character, but we’ll have to see what the devious and crafty Mr. Burlew has up his sleeve. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/796 "2010-05-12T16:15:14Z")
It seems that the General probably knows that they’re not the folks he’s looking for. For one, he knocked Haley out of the window and she didn’t fly. This proves that she’s not Sabine. More importantly, Elan surrendered specifically to save her life. Nale would probably not do that. At least not so quickly and abjectly. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/797 "2010-05-12T16:29:10Z")
I’d say I’m _entirely_ sure he’s Elan’s brother, except he seems to be at least as smart as Roy. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/798 "2010-05-12T16:38:15Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Me too. See the similar helmet. Lawful Evil, too. Word of honor and all that. And interested in preserving _whichever_ son. > > Could be Elan and Nale’s half-brother, Lane, though. Or Alen. Or his cleverly-disguised half-sister, Lena? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/799 "2010-05-12T17:29:59Z")
> [@](#): > > No, there’s the ‘word of honor’ identifying characteristic. That’s a characteristic, sure, but it’s not an identifying one. When we first met Daimyo Kubota, nobody said “Hey, he’s Lawful Evil! He must actually be Redcloak!”. Think of it this way: Suppose that were supposed to be Elan’s dad. How would the dramatic reveal go? He takes off his helmet and we see, what? It doesn’t work, since we’ve only ever seen Elan’s dad with his helmet on. If we don’t just recognize Elan’s dad as soon as we see him, then the only way the dramatic reveal could be pulled off is if he puts the helmet _on_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/800 "2010-05-12T17:52:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That’s a characteristic, sure, but it’s not an identifying one. When we first met Daimyo Kubota, nobody said “Hey, he’s Lawful Evil! He must actually be Redcloak!”. It’s not proof, but it is something they have in common besides the big helmet. Also, he seems to care if Elan lives or not, which is odd for a high-ranking military type in an explicitly evil empire. So that suggests some previous connection to, or knowledge of, Elan. Lastly, his plan hinged on Elan caring enough about someone else to surrender so they won’t get hurt, which suggests he knows that Elan isn’t Nale. None of it is a slam dunk, of course, and Burlew has never been a very predictable writer. But it’s not a complete ass-pull, either. > [@](#): > > Think of it this way: Suppose that were supposed to be Elan’s dad. How would the dramatic reveal go? He takes off his helmet and we see, what? It doesn’t work, since we’ve only ever seen Elan’s dad with his helmet on. If we don’t just recognize Elan’s dad as soon as we see him, then the only way the dramatic reveal could be pulled off is if he puts the helmet _on_. Someone who looks just like Nale and Elan, except older, would work. But I don’t think it’s strictly necessary. Vader didn’t need to take off his helmet for his dramatic parentage revelation. Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an explicit Star Wars reference coming up. Elan would be a pretty decent Luke stand in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=41)