# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/961 "2010-07-09T21:08:07Z")
In the old days, being Disintegrated used to make you unresurectable. No idea if that’s true with the dumbed down kid’s rules of today’s AD&D ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/962 "2010-07-09T22:00:57Z")
The pile of dust is sufficient remains for a Resurrection spell (7th level, thus castable by a 13th-level cleric), but you can fix that by scattering the dust. And the 9th-level True Resurrection (castable by a 17th-level cleric) doesn’t even need any remains at all, just some way of uniquely identifying someone who lived in the past few centuries. I think the druid spell Reincarnate has the same set of restrictions as Resurrection, but of course that has side effects. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/963 "2010-07-10T00:54:49Z")
I’m not an expert at D&D rules, but ISTR from my role-playing days years ago that raising from the dead makes you permanently lose a level and a point of CON. What level is an ordinary person? is he level one or zero? Is it possible for someone at the very bottom level to be raised? I mean if they are already at the minimum then what happens? Can they lose a level, and go below minimum? Do they stay at minimum? Or is it impossible to raise them? Anyway, even if raising is possible, it still seems like killing someone is serious. Maybe about as bad as breaking someone’s arm would be in the real world. That is, it gives them a lot of pain, and inconvenience, even if they eventually recover from it. Still reason enough to seek revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/964 "2010-07-10T17:40:44Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Anyway, even if raising is possible, it still seems like killing someone is serious. Maybe about as bad as breaking someone’s arm would be in the real world. That is, it gives them a lot of pain, and inconvenience, even if they eventually recover from it. Still reason enough to seek revenge. There is a very good series of swords&sorcery novels by Steven Brust, starting the Jhereg. They are about the adventures of a man named Vlad living in a world with AD&D level magic. I believe that they were originally based on a D&D game that Brust played in, but surprisingly, they do not suck even so. Especially the first couple are about Vlad’s adventures as a sort of Mafia figure, a hit man in the world where Raise Dead spells are possible. Just killing someone is done to send a message, much like a beating in our world. If someone is really mad at a person, they will pay extra to make it harder or impossible to raise the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/965 "2010-07-10T18:14:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not an expert at D&D rules, but ISTR from my role-playing days years ago that raising from the dead makes you permanently lose a level and a point of CON. > > What level is an ordinary person? is he level one or zero? Is it possible for someone at the very bottom level to be raised? I mean if they are already at the minimum then what happens? Can they lose a level, and go below minimum? Do they stay at minimum? Or is it impossible to raise them? In 3rd edition (the rules OotS uses), someone reduced to 0th level is dead, and usually ends up turning into some sort of undead. Someone who’s raised loses one level, or if they’re already first level, they lose Constitution instead (I can’t remember if it’s 1 or 2 points). Someone who’s first level and doesn’t have that much Constitution (presumably due to having been raised multiple times before) just plain can’t be brought back. Most folks are first level, and mostly in what are called “NPC classes” like Commoner or Expert that are generally inferior to the standard classes. > [@](#): > > Especially the first couple are about Vlad’s adventures as a sort of Mafia figure, a hit man in the world where Raise Dead spells are possible. Just killing someone is done to send a message, much like a beating in our world. If someone is really mad at a person, they will pay extra to make it harder or impossible to raise the victim. It’s still expensive, though. Admittedly you wouldn’t hire someone like Vlad for a poor and unimportant victim, but for the poor, dead still means dead. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/966 "2010-07-10T18:47:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Someone who’s first level and doesn’t have that much Constitution (presumably due to having been raised multiple times before) just plain can’t be brought back. Most folks are first level … So if his family were 1st level like most people, they couldn’t be rezzed. Altough I guess that Roy’s little brother must have been 2nd level, since they tried to rez him. > **[496 Responsible - Giant in the Playground Games](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/967 "2010-07-10T18:55:33Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [496 Responsible - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html) _sniffle_ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/968 "2010-07-10T20:16:02Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > _sniffle_ Dammit! That strip still does it to me. _reaches for tissues_ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/969 "2010-07-11T01:28:16Z")
> [@](#): > > So if his family were 1st level like most people, they couldn’t be rezzed. Could be rezzed, but they’d lose Con points. It’s one or the other, not both. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/970 "2010-07-11T02:35:28Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > They would never pass a sentence like that on Belkar if they knew how much he was likely to enjoy it. “Please, oh please, Br’er Fox, don’t throw me in that gladiatorial pit!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/971 "2010-07-11T02:53:29Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Unless this is a whoosh, isn’t that the point of this strip? Is it? You mean the lawyers weren’t just being stupid, they meant “You’ll die and get rezzed and it will be over with it”? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/972 "2010-07-11T04:58:06Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Is it? You mean the lawyers weren’t just being stupid, they meant “You’ll die and get rezzed and it will be over with it”? That’s what I took it as, though I don’t think the resurrection comes free from the State. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/973 "2010-07-11T13:19:24Z")
Nnnnno, I think they were just being stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/974 "2010-07-11T15:06:25Z")
Who else is seeing Belkar, a few days from now, complaining that he’s run out of people to kill? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/975 "2010-07-11T16:05:05Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > So if his family were 1st level like most people, they couldn’t be rezzed. No, that’s not correct. In 3.5, the rule is that the raised person loses one level or, if they are first level, two points of Constitution. Only if the character is first level and has 2 or less Con can they not be raised. However, they can still come back to life with True Resurrection. Also, Roy’s dad was an experienced wizard, so his family were not 1st level. > [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Who else is seeing Belkar, a few days from now, complaining that he’s run out of people to kill? _raises hand_ My guess is that the authorities wil be merciful when they realise that keeping Belkar in the gladiator school means they won’t have gladiators to put on a show and thus will have to deal with civil unrest some other way. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/976 "2010-07-11T19:39:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, Roy’s dad was an experienced wizard, so his family were not 1st level. Experience doesn’t run in families. Eugene was high level because he went on adventures, just like Roy was high level because he went on adventures. But Sara probably didn’t go on any adventures, and Eric certainly didn’t. At most, there’d be a family tradition of adventuring, and Eric might have eventually picked a class (Roy speculated he might have become a bard). ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/977 "2010-07-12T02:15:09Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Who else is seeing Belkar, a few days from now, complaining that he’s run out of people to kill? Yeah, he’s either complaining of lack of targets, or he’s been proclaimed the King of the Gladiators. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/978 "2010-07-14T04:23:32Z")
[New comic!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0735.html) _cough_Tarquinisevil_cough_ ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/979 "2010-07-14T04:30:28Z")
Nah, just strict. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/980 "2010-07-14T05:04:08Z")
“Pray I don’t alter it any further”? Nice. He’s definitely evil - lawful evil, to be precise. That still doesn’t mean he’s automatically the party’s enemy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=50)