# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/981 "2010-07-14T05:43:20Z")
[quote=“Alessan, post:980, topic:508323”] “Pray I don’t alter it any further”? Nice. /QUOTE] Alter what? Didn’t get this bit. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/982 "2010-07-14T06:10:27Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > “Pray I don’t alter it any further”? Nice. > > Alter what? Didn’t get this bit. It’s channelling one of Darth Vader’s better lines in The Empire Strikes Back. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/983 "2010-07-14T06:31:36Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > It’s channelling one of Darth Vader’s better lines in The Empire Strikes Back. ah k ---
**Author:** ![Aestivalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Aestivalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aestivalis)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/984 "2010-07-14T11:54:20Z")
Wait, he can “lose” their paperwork and still be Lawful? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/985 "2010-07-14T11:59:43Z")
> [@Aestivalis](#): > > Wait, he can “lose” their paperwork and still be Lawful? Maybe the law says they’re responsible for producing their own copy of the paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/986 "2010-07-14T12:00:39Z")
I like that the lizard calls him a son of a mongoose. I guess a mongoose would be a pretty evil creature in a reptiles opinion. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/987 "2010-07-14T12:04:43Z")
Doesn’t mean he will oney the law of the land, otherwise how would they get any evil done. It just means he will keep his word. SO I’m guessing he didcn’t promise not to double cross bounty hunter guy. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/988 "2010-07-14T12:07:55Z")
> [@Aestivalis](#): > > Wait, he can “lose” their paperwork and still be Lawful? If he’s ordered to lose the paperwork by his chain of command, then he’d be breaking the rules if he didn’t. If he’s LE or LN, then there’s not even any moral problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/989 "2010-07-14T12:09:01Z")
> [@Aestivalis](#): > > Wait, he can “lose” their paperwork and still be Lawful? Lying because someone orders you to lie is very much a lawful evil act. My rule of thumb is this: if it’s something a Nazi and/or a mafioso would do, it’s lawful evil. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/990 "2010-07-14T14:34:27Z")
> [@Aestivalis](#): > > Wait, he can “lose” their paperwork and still be Lawful? Being Lawful only means that you’re inclined to have some plan or code to guide your decisions instead of just winging it. It does not mean that you follow other people’s rules, or that you don’t lie about what you plan to do. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/991 "2010-07-14T14:47:15Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Being Lawful only means that you’re inclined to have some plan or code to guide your decisions instead of just winging it. It does not mean that you follow other people’s rules, or that you don’t lie about what you plan to do. I’m not sure abotu that. Wasn’t one of the implications of the imp’s telling V he would help him that he was sworn to do that because he was a lawful creature? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/992 "2010-07-14T17:17:24Z")
First of all, imps are literally composed of law and evil: It’s inherent to their very nature. So their adherence to alignment is perhaps a bit more strict than that of mortals. Even so, though, there are always loopholes. The imp might not be able to lie to Vaarsuvius, but he could certainly tell misleading truths. Second, losing paperwork is a very Lawful way of dealing with something like this. The chaotic approach would be more that the paperwork just doesn’t matter (“Badges? We don’t need no stinkin’ badges”). So Tarquin puts down the word that it would be very convenient for him if Kilkil just happened to lose the paperwork (not that he’s actually saying that he should do that, mind you, just that it would be convenient). Kilkil then dutifully does lose the paperwork, and then testifies truly in court that he did in fact lose it. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/993 "2010-07-14T18:50:17Z")
What happened to Big Blue? Were his papers found to be in order because he wasn’t the one with the can of tomato soup, is is he just being processed seperately? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/994 "2010-07-14T19:47:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Second, losing paperwork is a very Lawful way of dealing with something like this. The chaotic approach would be more that the paperwork just doesn’t matter (“Badges? We don’t need no stinkin’ badges”). So Tarquin puts down the word that it would be very convenient for him if Kilkil just happened to lose the paperwork (not that he’s actually saying that he should do that, mind you, just that it would be convenient). Kilkil then dutifully does lose the paperwork, and then testifies truly in court that he did in fact lose it. Or it could be more direct than that. “Do you have any idea how the paperwork might have been lost?” “Yes, I think it might have been me running it through the shredder.” “What? You destroyed the paperwork intentionally?” “Sure. The law says you have to have the paperwork in order to be released. The law doesn’t say I can’t destroy that paperwork in order to get you convicted.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/995 "2010-07-14T20:33:26Z")
> [@](#): > > What happened to Big Blue? Were his papers found to be in order because he wasn’t the one with the can of tomato soup, is is he just being processed seperately? I imagine that they’re being tried together, and that the lizardman is just acting as the spokesman for the pair. The half-dragon is probably waiting just off-panel in case the boss tells him to beat anyone/thing up. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/996 "2010-07-15T08:43:29Z")
Oh, this is going to be a ‘happy’ reunion for some people… ETA: Tarquin is sort of goofy but he’s not one to be messed about with. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/997 "2010-07-19T11:55:39Z")
Aaaaaaaand… [new strip up](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html). Plenty of beefcake, for those so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/998 "2010-07-19T12:05:06Z")
Two things I’d like to note: 1. It was nice of them to give the prisoners loincloths in colors that contrast their skin tones. 2. It seems as though prolonged exposure to Elan has started to affect Roy’s thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/999 "2010-07-19T12:08:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Plenty of beefcake, for those so inclined. More like beef stick. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1000 "2010-07-19T12:15:26Z")
Or in Belkar’s case, beef jerky. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=51)