# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1041 "2010-08-04T02:26:26Z")
Wisdom, Peter. He ‘sees the obvious’. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1042 "2010-08-04T07:37:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well of course Elan’s dad seems nice! But that doesn’t mean that he actually is nice, just that (like Elan) he has high charisma. No, I think being nice is really his default state. That doesn’t mean he won’t crush anyone in his path, of course; it’s just that he’ll probably justify it as something that needs to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1043 "2010-08-04T17:16:19Z")
[Whoops! Roys is too clever for his own good again.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1044 "2010-08-04T17:56:09Z")
Wow, the updates really are frequent these days. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1045 "2010-08-04T18:05:00Z")
I suspect a coming dry spell… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1046 "2010-08-04T18:11:39Z")
Even with the mid-week games, “no jailbreak” was probably still the right choice. First off, Roy and Belkar are really high level. Even if they’re going up against armed and armored gladiators, they still have an excellent chance of surviving the games. Second, even if they die, the rest of the group can afford to get them rezzed, possibly even True Resurrectioned if they can find a high enough level cleric. Third, even if they die and can’t be rezzed for some reason, getting more information about Girard probably is actually more important than Roy’s own personal life. I’m also impressed at how much information they were able to get across in 25 words. Especially Roy, given that he hadn’t rehearsed or written it down. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1047 "2010-08-05T06:31:57Z")
Roy DOES have a fairly high Intelligence and at least a decent Wisdom and Charisma (according to the soul evaluator when he died). And yeah, “no jailbreak” was probably the right choice. Roy and Durkon, at least, are Lawful Good, and this would be a very drastic alignment violation. Roy might get away with it, as long as he tries to make up for it afterwards, but even if his alignment is shifted to Neutral Good, it won’t affect his fighter class. Durkon, on the other hand, MUST stay on the right side of Thor, in order to keep his alignment and his class…and to keep getting the most useful spells. Haley is probably good, but she’s definitely at least Neutral and more likely Chaotic. I’m sure that Elan is basically Good, but I don’t know where he falls on the Lawful/Chaotic axis. Is there such an alignment as Idiotic Good? V, of course, had that little Evil episode (complete with teeth and speech balloon makeovers). And we all know that Belkar is Chaotic Psychopath. Perhaps that redundant. I doubt that the regular gladiators will be above sixth level, and I’d guess that most of them are no more than third level. Belkar can probably take ALL of them out, in a group, while standing on his head, with one hand tied behind his back, all on his lonesome. And he’ll bitch about being bored, and he’ll regret that Mr. Scruffy isn’t there for the fun. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1048 "2010-08-05T06:47:43Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > And yeah, “no jailbreak” was probably the right choice. Roy and Durkon, at least, are Lawful Good, and this would be a very drastic alignment violation. Roy might get away with it, as long as he tries to make up for it afterwards, but even if his alignment is shifted to Neutral Good, it won’t affect his fighter class. Durkon, on the other hand, MUST stay on the right side of Thor, in order to keep his alignment and his class…and to keep getting the most useful spells. I’m pretty sure Thor is Chaotic Good, and probably wouldn’t mind a jailbreak, so long as it were for a good cause. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1049 "2010-08-05T06:52:50Z")
Durkon is described as being extremely Lawful in _On the Origin of PCs_, but you’re right, the D&D Thor is CG. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1050 "2010-08-05T06:57:57Z")
Oh, yeah, Durkon is Lawful with a vengeance. Technically, he’s too lawful to be a cleric of Thor. Per 3.x rules, a cleric can’t be more than one step off of his deity’s alignment. Clerics of Thor can be Neutral Good, or Chaotic Neutral, but never Lawful Good. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1051 "2010-08-05T06:58:06Z")
Elan is confirmed CG. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1052 "2010-08-05T07:14:09Z")
But Mr Scruffy _will_ be there I imagine. I’m thinking Elan/Hayley are going to be guests of honour at these games (probably with Mr Scruffy tagging along). I’m picturing Belkar getting some distraction assistance from that corner. is it too early for bounty hunters vs Roy/Belkar? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1053 "2010-08-05T08:06:25Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > R > Haley is probably good, but she’s definitely at least Neutral and more likely Chaotic. I’m sure that Elan is basically Good, but I don’t know where he falls on the Lawful/Chaotic axis. Is there such an alignment as Idiotic Good? V, of course, had that little Evil episode (complete with teeth and speech balloon makeovers). And we all know that Belkar is Chaotic Psychopath. Perhaps that redundant. Haley has called herself Chaotic Good-ish; Elan is CG; V is probably True Neutral - he wants to be good, but he’s having a hard time with it. Belkar is CE, Durkon is a strong LG, and Roy is somewhere on the border of LG and NG (he defines himself as LG, but his instincts aren’t always that Lawful.) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1054 "2010-08-05T09:53:54Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Roy DOES have a fairly high Intelligence and at least a decent Wisdom and Charisma (according to the soul evaluator when he died). And that Illithid who thought he was a better meal than either Durkon or V. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1055 "2010-08-05T16:05:36Z")
Note that a jailbreak isn’t _necessarily_ a chaotic act. Durkon points out that he had no problems rescuing Elan et al, because they didn’t actually break any laws, they just looked like someone who had. But Roy and Belkar were legitimately arrested for breaking the law (not having their papers), for which the legal punishment in this nation is consistently “fighting in the arena”. Durkon may (or may not) think that it’s a stupid law, but it is the law, and it’s applied fairly. As for the arena, Enor (the big half-dragon) is probably the only thing in that arena that would be any threat at all to Roy and Belkar, and that mostly because the deck is about as stacked as it can be in favor of a half-dragon (which, in normal circumstances, isn’t actually all that great). Even there, though, it’s two-on-one (the smart lizardfolk is going to be even more useless than Roy and Belkar without his equipment), and our guys will probably also have some buffs sneaked onto them (if nothing else, Elan will be rooting for them, and a 13+th level bard rooting for you is a pretty significant bonus). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1056 "2010-08-05T16:26:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As for the arena, Enor (the big half-dragon) is probably the only thing in that arena that would be any threat at all to Roy and Belkar… From the looks of the poster, the gladiatorial show consists of unarmed prisoners vs armed and armoured guards. Or maybe they are armed - with wooden swords. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1057 "2010-08-05T16:51:26Z")
Yeah, I’m taking that into account. They’re high enough level that it’s still not an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1058 "2010-08-05T16:53:45Z")
It won’t be that easy, you know. It’s never that easy. No character is stronger than a sadistic DM. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1059 "2010-08-05T17:14:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, I’m taking that into account. They’re high enough level that it’s still not an issue. Unless their opponent is also a skilled fighter. He didn’t do so well against Miko without his sword, did he? In fact, without his sword he was [ineffective against a low level bandit](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0167.html). He could be in serious trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1060 "2010-08-05T18:08:48Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Unless their opponent is also a skilled fighter. He didn’t do so well against Miko without his sword, did he? In fact, without his sword he was [ineffective against a low level bandit](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0167.html). He could be in serious trouble. That was six hundred strips ago. I’m pretty sure they’ve gained a few levels since then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=54)