# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1261 "2010-11-11T18:09:41Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Now I’m _very_ curious about Tarquin’s reason for getting Elan up there in the first place. A surprise, hmm? To better view the arena, maybe? Perhaps it’s the way to the skyboxes. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1262 "2010-11-16T20:43:51Z")
[758 is UP!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html) And so the big picture begins to reveal itself… Despite the fact that Tarquin is participating in a grand confidence job, one could make an argument that his goal is worthy. That is, if simply ruling actually IS his ultimate goal. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1263 "2010-11-16T20:54:21Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > [758 is UP!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html) > > And so the big picture begins to reveal itself… > > Despite the fact that Tarquin is participating in a grand confidence job, one could make an argument that his goal is worthy. That is, if simply ruling actually IS his ultimate goal. Who had asked if that prisoner w2as starshoine senior? good call ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1264 "2010-11-16T20:55:43Z")
Sneaky bastard, isn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1265 "2010-11-16T20:56:01Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Despite the fact that Tarquin is participating in a grand confidence job, one could make an argument that his goal is worthy. That is, if simply ruling actually IS his ultimate goal. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is. This sets him up for some nice parallels with Redcloak, the other major villain who’s banking on the ends justifying the means. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1266 "2010-11-16T21:14:22Z")
Woah! I totally missed the Red-Haired Ian reference! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1267 "2010-11-16T21:17:47Z")
So, does every adventuring party in this world always consist of exactly six members? And Elan obviously recognizes Tyrinaria; does Roy know who Ian is? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1268 "2010-11-16T21:24:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, does every adventuring party in this world always consist of exactly six members? > > And Elan obviously recognizes Tyrinaria; does Roy know who Ian is? no. Only Elan has the back story ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1269 "2010-11-16T21:25:55Z")
Ooo! Revelatialicious! Interesting that Tarquin just assumes that Elan is the leader of the OotS. Queen Schvitzer of the Empire of Sweat, heh. Ian’s brother-in-law Geoff – does that mean he’s Haley’s mother’s brother, or Ian’s sister’s husband, or could Ian have remarried while imprisoned? ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1270 "2010-11-16T21:32:57Z")
Well, and I here I thought “Whitebeard-is-Ian” was just another one of those wacky “everyone is Girard Draketooth” theories. Taquin is awesomely evil. Emphasis on the awesome. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1271 "2010-11-16T21:33:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And Elan obviously recognizes Tyrinaria; does Roy know who Ian is? I THINK that Haley is keeping everything regarding her quest for her father from the rest of the Order, except for Elan. Or at least keeping it from Roy, for some reason. I seem to remember her revealing the whole thing to Elan after Roy was resurrected, just before they left for the Western Continent. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1272 "2010-11-16T21:46:13Z")
Kingdoms of Blood, Sweat, and Tears? (shakes head) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1273 "2010-11-16T21:53:05Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Kingdoms of Blood, Sweat, and Tears? No. That would be silly. They’re Empires of Blood Sweat and Tears. And we did see all of those on a map near the beginning of the storyline. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1274 "2010-11-16T22:46:46Z")
I probably shook my head over it then, too. One of the advantages of a bad memory is getting to read a book for the first time, twice. Or to react to a bad pun for the first time, twice. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1275 "2010-11-16T23:07:20Z")
So… some further thoughts. How much autonomy do Tarquin’s puppet-rulers have? Say, sending ransom notes to the Northern continent. Would that be something Tarquin would care about, or is he too busy with affairs of state? That is, was the letter written by Tarquin or Tyrinar? Hmm, maybe Tyrinar wrote it and Tarquin quickly read it over and forgot about it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1276 "2010-11-17T01:01:08Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Who had asked if that prisoner w2as starshoine senior? > > good call That would be **choie** , in [this post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12906265&postcount=1122) Well done, sir. You win an internet! ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1277 "2010-11-17T01:30:24Z")
I think it’s pretty likely that Nale and the Linear Guild are going to show up before long. Not only is he Tarquin’s other child, but it seems like a gate protected by illusions would be more appealing to him than one protected by lots of monsters, and we know that he’s looking for a gate based on [his last appearance](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html). The Guild versus the Order is a big B-plot that needs to be resolved by the end of the story, and this seems like as good a place as any to do it. That’s the easy prediction, but I think we’ll see a very interesting revelation regarding Haley. We know from [her dinner with Elan in Azure City](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html) that she has a big secret of some kind, and based on the translations in the books, it hasn’t been revealed yet. There’s also a bit of commentary in one of the books from Rich stating that Haley is Sabine’s opposite in some major way that had not been revealed as of that writing. It doesn’t take a big leap to guess that these two items are related. I’m going to make the bold claim that Haley’s mother was not human, but was some kind of upper planar denizen. Note the exact phrasing in [Haley’s childhood flashback](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html): > [@](#): > > No, my mommy went to heaven last year. The obvious interpretation is that she’s dead, but in a setting where heaven is only a plane shift away, it doesn’t have to mean that. It’s a nice piece of foreshadowing if it’s true, and I think it adds an interesting twist to her father’s warning in the next panel. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1278 "2010-11-17T02:43:07Z")
^The OOTS message board has discussed the possibility. A LOT. Go eavesdrop on them and you’ll find that not only have your original ideas been already advanced, but that about fifty members have posted this “original” idea without noticing the other forty-nine mentions. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1279 "2010-11-17T04:59:13Z")
The biggest single piece of evidence in favor of the “Haley is part celestial” theory is that the only time Rich has ever re-used Haley’s face template, [it was for a celestial of some sort](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html). The biggest piece of evidence against, IMHO, is that [her mother was apparently known to the Greyskyians](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html), and nobody’s said anything about Mia being something special. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1280 "2010-11-17T07:09:45Z")
Some on the forums are theorizing that Ian’s going to be killed in the arena… in front of Haley… probably even by Belkar (since only Elan knows about Dad)… That would certainly be dramatic! If Ian somehow ends up in the arena (despite his not having been in for “months”), this will be raised to near certainty! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=65)