# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1281 "2010-11-17T15:19:19Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > … probably even by Belkar (since only Elan knows about Dad)… Don’t think it would bother Belkar much if he knew. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1282 "2010-11-17T15:25:29Z")
I think we would have noticed if Haley was using the Celestial or Half-Celestial templates. Too many bonuses, too many special abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1283 "2010-11-17T15:27:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I think we would have noticed if Haley was using the Celestial or Half-Celestial templates. Too many bonuses, too many special abilities. And probably a different color word balloon. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1284 "2010-11-17T16:52:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The biggest single piece of evidence in favor of the “Haley is part celestial” theory is that the only time Rich has ever re-used Haley’s face template, [it was for a celestial of some sort](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html). Also that the Giant says she’s Sabine’s opposite in some significant way, and one of her Haley-grams translates to “I’m not necessarily what you’s call…” (and it’s a secret that “not even V knows.”) My favorite crackpot Haley theory is that she’s related to Loki. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1285 "2010-11-17T17:08:35Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > My favorite crackpot Haley theory is that she’s related to Loki. Heh…that would make her posing as a Thor worshipper at Evil Banquet pretty ironic, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1286 "2010-11-17T18:31:15Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Also that the Giant says she’s Sabine’s opposite in some significant way, and one of her Haley-grams translates to “I’m not necessarily what you’s call…” (and it’s a secret that “not even V knows.”) I’ve always assumed the missing word was either “Good” or “Heterosexual”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1287 "2010-11-17T18:39:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The biggest single piece of evidence in favor of the “Haley is part celestial” theory is that the only time Rich has ever re-used Haley’s face template, [it was for a celestial of some sort](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html). Has anyone theorized that celestial was Haley’s mother? ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1288 "2010-11-17T20:28:00Z")
Yep. Or that the celestial is far back enough in the family that Haley has a mostly human template, but still passed down a trick or two. Or, for that matter, that either Haley’s grandfather is Loki himself, or that Ian is some sort of avatar of Loki. Order of the Stick, planting epileptic trees since 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1289 "2010-11-17T20:55:13Z")
Oh, one other piece of evidence, though it’s circumstantial and very geeky: Haley says at one point that her bow is a longbow, not a shortbow. Rogues get proficiency with the shortbow by default, but not the longbow, and there’s little enough difference between them (especially for a sneak-attacking rogue) that it wouldn’t be worth wasting a feat to gain longbow proficiency. But outsiders all get proficiencies in all martial weapons for free, so if Haley were an aasimar (mostly-human but with a little Upper Planes ancestry), she might as well use the slightly-better longbow. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1290 "2010-11-17T21:12:12Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That would be **choie** , in [this post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12906265&postcount=1122) > > Well done, sir. You win an internet! Thanks! I’m a madam, but you might’ve been fooled by my Girdle of Feminity/Masculinity. 🙂 Woohoo, my first accurate prediction. Admittedly it wasn’t exactly far-fetched, but at the time I did think I might be too conspiracy-minded. I had some trouble parsing the narrative in this one, what with all the different empires and convoluted plans being described. Still, a great strip with Elan displaying his usual combo of naivete, stubbornness and compassion, bless his heart. I’m wondering about the ‘surprise’ ol’ Dad still has in store for Elan. That “I’m the leader of my group of adventures, like you” seemed pointed, didn’t it? Does he know about Roy? Presumably he’s savvy enough to figure out that Elan’s not qualfied to lead the OOTS, even if his ego wants his son to have inherited some of his better qualities. What I’d like to see happen? I think after all this goes down, some battle will result with Tarquin left alive at the end but now sworn enemy of his son. And possibly a rift between Haley & Elan, if she blames him for not letting her kill Tarquin. Then during EndGame, the major battle is split between Roy vs. Xykon and Elan vs. Nale, with Tarquin being a question mark re: which side he’ll join. Whatever happens I hope this plays out as dramatically as possible, because there’s so much potential here. And it’s the emotional stuff that draws me (wordplay!) to the comic, even more than the humor or adventure. I originally started reading thanks to the Vaarsuvius arc, so there ya go. I don’t think this is a pipe dream, though. Elan’s emotional journey is very close to the author’s heart, and thus will probably be part of the strip’s finale. It’s interesting that Roy’s rocky relationship with his father was the initial emotional focal point of the strip, but pretty soon Elan – of all people! – stepped up to the plate to deliver most of the angst: through Nale (repeatedly), his relationship with Haley (obviously), Therkla, and now Tarquin. Though other characters have had their angst as well, most recently V of course, Rich seems to find Elan his go-to guy for heartbreak. Strange for a dude who began as the most cartoony member of this comic. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1291 "2010-11-17T21:55:15Z")
Another factor is that we’ve been assured that Elan will have a happy ending. And given the way he thinks, that presumedly would have to include a reconciliation with his father and brother. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1292 "2010-11-17T22:11:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Another factor is that we’ve been assured that Elan will have a happy ending. And given the way he thinks, that presumedly would have to include a reconciliation with his father and brother. I dunno… It _would_ have to end with him having someone he can call “family”, but that might be via marriage to (or other formal recognition of status with) Haley, and possibly children with her, or even something wacky like being adopted by Roy, rather than through his own flesh and blood. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1293 "2010-11-18T14:47:25Z")
In other news, Bloodania is at war with Tearasia. Bloodania has always been at war with Tearasia. Sweatasia is our ally. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1294 "2010-11-18T15:49:10Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > In other news, Bloodania is at war with Tearasia. Bloodania has always been at war with Tearasia. Sweatasia is our ally. Fighting against Tearasia give lawful evils a ++1(ungood) bonus stat. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1295 "2010-11-19T17:16:01Z")
And, _HOLY F@#_\*, Tarquin is **EVEN MORE OF A MONSTER** than we imagined! :eek: :eek: [Jesus Christ…](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0759.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1296 "2010-11-19T17:21:46Z")
Now we’ll see if Elan is capable of guile. Shit. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1297 "2010-11-19T17:23:06Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > And, _HOLY F@#_\*, Tarquin is **EVEN MORE OF A MONSTER** than we imagined! :eek: :eek: > > [Jesus Christ…](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0759.html) No, no…that’s about on par with what I figured… ETA: Not the specific act, but the level of evil. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1298 "2010-11-19T17:32:20Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > No, no…that’s about on par with what I figured… > > ETA: Not the specific act, but the level of evil. Remember, his son killed sixty-odd people just to draw an arrow. It’s just a matter of scale. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1299 "2010-11-19T17:37:27Z")
I think [this](http://images7.cpcache.com/product_zoom/487906007v3_225x225_Front_Color-Red_padToSquare-true.jpg) says it all. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1300 "2010-11-19T18:08:27Z")
> [@](#): > > No, no…that’s about on par with what I figured… > > ETA: Not the specific act, but the level of evil. [No, no, I meant, did you expect her to flip out in that **exact** manner?](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=66)