# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1301 "2010-11-19T19:10:56Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I think [this](http://images7.cpcache.com/product_zoom/487906007v3_225x225_Front_Color-Red_padToSquare-true.jpg) says it all. I absolutely concur. Also: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1302 "2010-11-19T19:23:25Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I absolutely concur. Also: :eek: Yeah, but I’m still imagining one of those burning, crucified slaves cheerfully singing “Always look on the bright side of AAAAIIIIGGGGHGHGHHGHGH!!!” ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1303 "2010-11-19T19:29:25Z")
You know, that’s what the Romans did with Christians. At least, according to their histories. Besides the lion thing, they’d crucify them and ignite 'em. As the centerpiece of parties. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1304 "2010-11-19T19:40:17Z")
What I don’t get is, we know Tarquin isn’t stupid, so why does he not know this is going to majorly alienate Elan? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1305 "2010-11-19T19:41:37Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > What I don’t get is, we know Tarquin isn’t stupid, so why does he not know this is going to majorly alienate Elan? Because he doesn’t yet get that Elan is Good. How could he be, after all? He’s Tarquin’s son! That may be the one big blind spot Tarq has. Either that or this is all just a setup for the “join me or die” speech. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1306 "2010-11-19T19:47:53Z")
Yeah, there have been several indications that Tarquin just doesn’t understand what’s going on in Elan’s head. Remember when they got back to the palace after their day doing fun kiddie things and Tarquin thought Elan wanted to do that to get back some of the time he thought he should have had with his father when he was a child? Or when he cluelessly offered Elan roast phoenix? Tarquin doesn’t GET Elan…just as Elan didn’t get Tarquin until this strip. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1307 "2010-11-19T20:16:54Z")
I think Tarquin’s thinking runs like this: “I’m an evil guy, so my son’s probably an evil guy too! And if by some strange twist of fate he ISN’T an evil guy like me … well, then he should be acting hostile towards me! He should be treating me like an enemy. But Elan isn’t hostile at all! Elan seems totally cool with me being so evil … so he MUST be evil like me!” I think that what Tarquin hasn’t taken into account is the possibility that Elan is both good AND totally clueless … . ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1308 "2010-11-19T20:21:17Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I think that what Tarquin hasn’t taken into account is the possibility that Elan is both good AND totally clueless … . Exactly. He just assumed Elan was the leader of his party, like himself and Nale. I’m sure he expects Elan to be just as scheming and clever (although Nale is a bit of a buffoon too). ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1309 "2010-11-20T07:34:08Z")
You know, I think that all Elan has wanted, since forever, was an older male to love him and be a father figure. And now he has that, his dad DOES love him, and shows affection to him, BUT…poor Elan. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1310 "2010-11-20T07:41:46Z")
Vaarsuvius apparently miscalculated. V predicted they could set only twenty-three slaves free. But judging from the fire, they actually freed thirty. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1311 "2010-11-20T07:50:40Z")
I thought it was interesting that Tarquin ran Tyrinaria with Miron instead of his current partner Malack. Burlew interrupted the flow of the strip to mention this so I’m thinking there might be a reason to it. The story of Elan and Tarquin has been paralleled by the story of Durkon and Malack. Like Elan, Durkon has befriended an apparently evil character. But as I said, Burlew is apparently distancing Malack from some of Tarquin’s evil. This makes me wonder if the situation with Durkon and Malack will end differently than the situation with Elan and his father. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1312 "2010-11-20T09:42:31Z")
I agree Tarquin’s worldview simply doesn’t allow for the possibility that Elan won’t like what he did for him. Remember that he (Tarquin) called Haley Elan’s “woman.” That tells me that he just doesn’t conceive of an equal relationship, in which the stronger does not subjugate the weaker through charm, deception, or force. He may not have gotten it right with Elan’s and Nale’s mother, but he certainly seems to have learned his lesson with his other wives… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1313 "2010-11-20T10:02:38Z")
[Nale: “I don’t get it.” Elan: “Yup.”]([69 Hey, It Was Worth a Shot - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html)) We have to stop thinking of Tarquin as an evil Elan; for all effects and purposes, he’s just a more competant Nale. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1314 "2010-11-20T13:20:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Vaarsuvius apparently miscalculated. V predicted they could set only twenty-three slaves free. But judging from the fire, they actually freed thirty. Or they just grabbed more people when the numbers came up short. Tarquin would be peeved at them if they’d set up a flaming “ELA”. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1315 "2010-11-20T14:16:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or they just grabbed more people when the numbers came up short. Tarquin would be peeved at them if they’d set up a flaming “ELA”. Beat me to it, **Der Trihs**. I read that and immediately imagined the guys tasked with setting up the special display: “Crap! There are only twenty-three.” “Man, Tarquin is going to torture as all to death, have us resurrected, and torture us to death again, if the special display for his son is ruined. What are we going to do” [Thinking …] “Hey … how many new guys do we have on the crew again?” “Seven–why?” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1316 "2010-11-20T15:05:40Z")
I think what Tarquin did was kind of sweet. And, I mean, given that the slaves had to die for trying to escape anyway, at least this way, their deaths were useful. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1317 "2010-11-20T18:47:46Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think what Tarquin did was kind of sweet. And, I mean, given that the slaves had to die for trying to escape anyway, at least this way, their deaths were useful. O-o-o-kay. \ > [@Der Trihs](#): > > Or they just grabbed more people when the numbers came up short. Tarquin would be peeved at them if they’d set up a flaming “ELA”. I was counting dots, too and came up with the same conclusion, but it would have been ELA with one more dot above or below depending on where they were when they realized they’d run out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1318 "2010-11-20T21:03:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought it was interesting that Tarquin ran Tyrinaria with Miron instead of his current partner Malack. Burlew interrupted the flow of the strip to mention this so I’m thinking there might be a reason to it. I think that’s just because the letter Haley got way back when was signed “Miron” instead of “Malack”. It was probably written before the full script had been plotted out in that much detail, and this was just the Giant plugging a minor plot hole. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1319 "2010-11-21T02:06:18Z")
Looks like Lord Tyrinar might have been… _gasp_ a nice guy? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1320 "2010-11-21T03:55:05Z")
Maybe he filled out the count with the guards who screwed up and let them escape. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=67)