# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1621 "2011-02-14T15:09:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And Burlew has repeatedly made the point that being good doesn’t make you smart. Lawful Good characters let their alignment blind them - they figure they’re Good so anything they do can be justified as serving Good and anyone who opposes them can be eliminated because they must be Evil. V is Neutral, not Good, right? > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I’m thinking ex-brother-in-law or something similar. I think it’s personal. I think this nails it. We don’t yet know why the other elf glares at V whenever they’re in the same room, but V seems to. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1622 "2011-02-14T15:29:41Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right, but goblins: > > 1. Are an evil race. > > and > > 1. Were created by the gods as a source of XP for adventurers. (to try to stop that, the Dark One rose up, and for revenge, Redcloak is going along with Xyklon to unleash the Snarl) So it’s not an evil act to kill goblins. We also know it’s not an evil act to kill goblins because Paladins stop being Paladins if they commit an evil act (see Miko’s fall from grace), and the Paladins didn’t stop being paladins for massacring the goblins in the backstory. If you’re not being ironic here, you’ve really missed a substantial portion of the meaning of the story. Burlew has definitely been making a point about acts that are technically defined as Good while still being morally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1623 "2011-02-14T17:50:21Z")
Please forgive me if this has been tread on before, but I’m looking for a little clarification: In #774, Haley says in the last panel, “The potion [of Glibness] only works on things that aren’t true.” However, her speech balloon is peach-colored, so she’s bluffing to Elan. Why? I personally see some foreshadowing, as in Haley will be tricking Elan at some later point. I don’t think Haley will turn out to be as “good” as we’re lead to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1624 "2011-02-14T18:04:09Z")
I think that the speech balloon color indicates that she’s speaking while under the power of the glibness potion, it may or may not indicate that she’s bluffing. But that’s just a WAG. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1625 "2011-02-14T18:25:56Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I think that the speech balloon color indicates that she’s speaking while under the power of the glibness potion, it may or may not indicate that she’s bluffing. But that’s just a WAG. I see. And looking back, I think you’re right. Her speech balloon gradients from peach to white as she’s stepping through the border of the anti-magic zone. By the way, people we’re discussing the party members’ alignments. My guesses: Roy: Lawful Good. One could argue that he represents the humanitarian side of Lawful Good, whereas Miko represented the sanctimonious, authoritarian side. Haley: Chaotic Good. Rogue? Check. Overt disregard for authority? Check. Emancipator of slaves? Check. Elan: Neutral Good. He’s naive, happy-go-lucky, and likes people, always assuming the best intentions. Dorukan: Lawful Good. Priest of Thor. I really like him, but I find him to be one of the weaker characters with little motivation behind his actions other than being the party healer (maybe that’s the joke, though). Belkar: Chaotic Evil. Duh. Vaarsuvius: Tough one. I’d say True Neutral or Neutral Evil. When she has a goal, nothing will get in her way (I think V’s female). She would not have no qualms about committing genocide if it was for the “greater good”, but that “greater good” is on her terms. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1626 "2011-02-14T18:39:45Z")
When Roy died, and got interviewed for his Afterlife Destination, he’s explicitly judged as being Lawful Good with a few flaws, but he’s TRYING. Haley is really amazingly Good, considering her profession and upbringing. Elan is more Neutral Stupid than anything, though he really does want the best for everyone, so that qualifies him as Good. I like the dwarf, and I wish that he’d get some more exposure. I really enjoyed his chat with the lizard cleric. Belkar is just plain fun, and is, I believe, a spoof of the way many people play their characters. I think that V started out as Good, but with her (I think that V might be female, too) allowing evil spirits to augment her powers, that’s definitely an evil act…especially since she had a non-evil alternative. She did it for the sake of her ego. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1627 "2011-02-14T18:53:33Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > She would not have no qualms about committing genocide if it was for the “greater good”, but that “greater good” is on her terms. Make that “she would not have any qualms”. :smack: Yes, I speak English. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1628 "2011-02-14T19:16:15Z")
The alignments of all the party members are canonically known, except for Vaarsuvius. Roy and Durkon are Lawful Good, Haley and Elan are Chaotic Good, and Belkar is Chaotic Evil. Vaarsuvius’s has never been officially stated, but is generally regarded as having mixed up the “gender” and “alignment” spots on es character sheet, and put down “True Neutral” for both. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1629 "2011-02-14T19:16:36Z")
I think that when Elan sang “O Buddy Roy” he specifically mentioned that he was chaotic and so wouldn’t see lawful Roy in the afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1630 "2011-02-14T23:46:55Z")
I was just flipping back through some old strips and came across this one: [#469: Crossbones](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0469.html) I have a question. Was it ever explained why Belkar took no damage from that fireball? If not, what possible explanations are there? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1631 "2011-02-15T00:18:21Z")
High-level rangers get the Evasion ability, which lets them avoid all damage from things like fireballs, on a successful save. But it’s not something that lets you kill faster, so Belkar forgot that he had it. Rogues also get Evasion, starting from a fairly low level, a point which Haley _is_ quite aware of (having used it numerous times in the strip). Monks, too, for that matter, which is why Miko asked for a fireball centered on herself, in the fight versus the ogres. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1632 "2011-02-15T03:53:25Z")
V is good in the same sense that Willow from _Buffy_ is good-they’ve spent most of their lives helping the heroes defeat evil, but fell off a moral cliff along the way and have had to climb back up out of the hole they dug in their psyches afterwards (I’m half-sick tonite so sue me and my \*&%$# mixed metaphors). Belkar is a parody of the entire alignment concept, or at least its limitations-he’s committed some truly awful acts, but has chosen to hang out with a bunch of goody-goody types and has no interest in pursuing Evil Causes (like trying to destroy the world, say). Oddly, he’s never been shown being tempted by the actual purveyors of the Dark Side into working for them, which is a bit strange when you think about it. It’s kind of like he’s evil in a personal sense, but good when it comes to the big picture, if that makes any sense (that may just be an artifact of him being a “player character” who by default must stick with his comrades-some GMs won’t brook any intra-party intrigue at all). In any event the word “evil” is almost wholly inadequate in describing him. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1633 "2011-02-15T04:47:24Z")
Belkar isn’t unusual at all. He does what he enjoys without regard to its impact on others. That, right there, is evil in a nutshell. Why should he be tempted by the Powers of Darkness? It’s just as much fun to kill them as it is to work for them. And, like most evil people, he prefers that the rest of the world be relatively good, because that makes things better for him. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1634 "2011-02-15T05:08:23Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Oddly, he’s never been shown being tempted by the actual purveyors of the Dark Side into working for them, which is a bit strange when you think about it. Actually, he was, as seen in the two strips starting [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0520.html). Strongly tempted. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1635 "2011-02-16T16:53:49Z")
[A Sombering Oration](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0776.html) Gives hints that this portion of the storyline may be winding down soon. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1636 "2011-02-16T17:05:44Z")
I like the Heraldry on the front of the podium. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1637 "2011-02-16T17:16:33Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I like the Heraldry on the front of the podium. Twin winged dragons with a drop of blood? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1638 "2011-02-16T17:21:37Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > [A Sombering Oration](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0776.html) > > Gives hints that this portion of the storyline may be winding down soon. Actually, I think it’s winding up - my money is on Girard being revealed within 5 strips, and Xykon (remember him?) appearing within 5 strips after that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1639 "2011-02-16T17:24:16Z")
Oh, and Xykon will kill Tarquin. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1640 "2011-02-16T18:08:57Z")
Have there been any updates on Rich Burlew’s health? I’d hate to see the strip suddenly go away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=83)