# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1641 "2011-02-16T18:51:51Z")
He’s been reluctant to say what his health problems are (and it’s none of our business, really) but they are supposedly non-life-threatening. Nor are they going to leave him permanently unable to draw. So there may be occasional periods of a month or two without updates, but you can expect the story to be completed. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1642 "2011-02-16T18:59:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Actually, I think it’s winding up - my money is on Girard being revealed within 5 strips, and Xykon (remember him?) appearing within 5 strips after that. I doubt it. I expect the gladiators to take minimum of 5 strips, probably more. Speaking to Tarquin after the show to find out about Girard another strip. Roy and Belkar’s escape from jail, two strips minimum. Travelling to Girard’s hideout, at least another strip. I’d say at least 10 strips before we see Girard, and more likely 25. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1643 "2011-02-17T11:02:15Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I think that when Elan sang “O Buddy Roy” he specifically mentioned that he was chaotic and so wouldn’t see lawful Roy in the afterlife. Elan takes after his Chaotic Good mother; Nale takes after his Lawful evil father. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1644 "2011-02-17T15:04:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Elan takes after his Chaotic Good mother; Nale takes after his Lawful evil father. Although it’s funny that Elan should be chaotic since he deliberately conforms to the rules of dramatic convention so avidly. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1645 "2011-02-17T16:02:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Actually, I think it’s winding up - my money is on Girard being revealed within 5 strips, and Xykon (remember him?) appearing within 5 strips after that. Girard’s an illusionist. Maybe we’re going to find out he’s been present all along. As for Xykon, a cutaway is probable but I don’t think we’ve reached the point yet where he’ll be directly appearing with the Order. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1646 "2011-02-17T16:31:11Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Although it’s funny that Elan should be chaotic since he deliberately conforms to the rules of dramatic convention so avidly. The rules of dramatic convention are like natural laws, I think. Chaotic and Lawful don’t mean a whole lot in relation to them because it’s not really an option to NOT follow them. Not even anarchists in the real world can refuse to follow the law of gravity. Elan’s relationship to them is really one of someone who KNOWS what those rules of dramatic convention are and therefore how to prepare for the inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1647 "2011-02-17T16:39:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Girard’s an illusionist. Maybe we’re going to find out he’s been present all along. Those were my thoughts precisely. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As for Xykon, a cutaway is probable but I don’t think we’ve reached the point yet where he’ll be directly appearing with the Order. I don’t know… it’s been so long since we’ve seen him, that I’m starting to suspect that Burlew is preparing to spring something big on us. Remember, Xykon hasn’t actually \*done \*anything this entire “book”. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1648 "2011-02-17T17:07:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t know… it’s been so long since we’ve seen him, that I’m starting to suspect that Burlew is preparing to spring something big on us. Remember, Xykon hasn’t actually \*done \*anything this entire “book”. Xykon went to the Oracle (presumably to ask about his phylactery). It’s been even longer since we’ve seen Nale, though, and this seems like a good time for the final confrontation with the Linear Guild. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1649 "2011-02-17T20:26:29Z")
> [@](#): > > The rules of dramatic convention are like natural laws, I think. Chaotic and Lawful don’t mean a whole lot in relation to them because it’s not really an option to NOT follow them. Not even anarchists in the real world can refuse to follow the law of gravity. Elan’s relationship to them is really one of someone who KNOWS what those rules of dramatic convention are and therefore how to prepare for the inevitable. My take on it is that Stickworld has a Cha-based “Genre Savvy” skill. Elan’s maxed out his ranks in it, and has a Charisma that’s as high as is humanly possible, so he has a very good score in it. Likewise, probably, for his dad. Xykon has little or no training in it, but his Cha is as high as _in_humanly possible, which is enough for a good score all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1650 "2011-02-17T20:50:03Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Xykon went to the Oracle (presumably to ask about his phylactery). It’s been even longer since we’ve seen Nale, though, and this seems like a good time for the final confrontation with the Linear Guild. My guess is that he asked the Oracle for the location of the next gate, instead. Which is how he’ll appear suddenly out of the blue and throw a wrench in everyone’s plans. Nale is a second-string villain, who isn’t crucial to the plot; Xykon is the Big Bad. We haven’t seen the lich for over 100 strips, which means I expect him to show up when we least expect him. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1651 "2011-02-17T20:56:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > We haven’t seen the lich for over 100 strips, which means I expect him to show up when we least expect him. In that case my prediction is that Xykon is going to show up, murder Tarquin and inspire Elan to quote Inigo Montoya. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1652 "2011-02-17T21:55:46Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > In that case my prediction is that Xykon is going to show up, murder Tarquin and inspire Elan to quote Inigo Montoya. “Where we did we put that wheelbarrow the albino had”? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1653 "2011-02-17T22:29:29Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > It’s been even longer since we’ve seen Nale, though, and this seems like a good time for the final confrontation with the Linear Guild. I have my doubts. Keep in mind that they are the [pawns](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) of the Three Fiends, whose true end goals we don’t even know yet (except that they are, duh, fiendish). They don’t want a final confrontation on any side, they explicitly want conflict between _all_ sides. The Linear Guild might show up, but rather than a final confrontation I’d expect them to produce chaos (regardless of what Nale intends to happen, as he’s an _unknowing_ puppet). ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1654 "2011-02-17T22:44:24Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Xykon went to the Oracle (presumably to ask about his phylactery). It’s been even longer since we’ve seen Nale, though, and this seems like a good time for the final confrontation with the Linear Guild. > [@Alessan](#): > > My guess is that he asked the Oracle for the location of the next gate, instead. Which is how he’ll appear suddenly out of the blue and throw a wrench in everyone’s plans. > > Nale is a second-string villain, who isn’t crucial to the plot; Xykon is the Big Bad. We haven’t seen the lich for over 100 strips, which means I expect him to show up when we least expect him. The Oracle avoided Xykon, though. I’m darned if I can find the strip, but we once saw Xykon standing frustrated at the Oracle’s door looking at a note on it that said the Oracle was out. I agree with **ultrafilter** – the last we saw of Nale, he and Sabine and Thog were flying off in search of a Gate to control. It’s clear that the next Gate that Xykon will be near is Girard’s, so I think Nale will have taken control of Serini’s Gate and that will be the next major challenge for the OotS. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tarquin had a big part in it; perhaps Nale kills him? In any case, I see Gerard’s Gate as the final showdown of the whole epic story, since the finale must necessarily involve Xykon and that is the Gate he will approach next. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1655 "2011-02-17T22:54:15Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Nale is a second-string villain, who isn’t crucial to the plot; Xykon is the Big Bad. We haven’t seen the lich for over 100 strips, which means I expect him to show up when we least expect him. But the rules of the narrative demand that the also-rans be disposed of _before_ the final confrontation with the Big Bad. Second-string or not, Nale’s fate will be dealt with before or concomitant with Xyklon’s, not after. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1656 "2011-02-17T23:44:19Z")
There’s no reason why the next confrontation with Xykon has to be the \*last \*one. The way I see it, the story hinges around the gates; its climax has to be at the last surviving gate. There are two gates left, which means one more must be destroyed before the story ends. Now, Xykon has been present at the destruction of the first three dates, which means odds are, he’ll be involved in the destruction of the next one. Since - unless this story takes a very unexpected turn - the next gate they’ll find is Girard’s Gate, they’ll have to face him there. As the rules of narrative dictate that the destruction of the gate will probably be at the end of a “book”, and this book is rapidly approaching its end, I’m pretty sure Xykon will be showing up soon. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1657 "2011-02-18T00:10:14Z")
I wouldn’t put it past The Giant to confound expectations, kill off Xykon and make Nale the main villain. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1658 "2011-02-18T00:44:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t know… it’s been so long since we’ve seen him, that I’m starting to suspect that Burlew is preparing to spring something big on us. Remember, Xykon hasn’t actually \*done \*anything this entire “book”. That’s why I think an appearance in the story by Xykon is probable. But I don’t think it’ll involve the Order. It’ll be a cutaway showing what Xykon and Redcloak have been doing. Burlew will move the story forward but not have to show another confrontation between the main villains and main heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1659 "2011-02-18T00:46:07Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I wouldn’t put it past The Giant to confound expectations, kill off Xykon and make Nale the main villain. I won’t say it’s impossible but I would be amazed if Burlew tried something like this at this point. We’re past the halfway point in the story and this would be a huge change of direction. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/1660 "2011-02-18T04:14:04Z")
It could happen. For a while there, Miko was arguably the main villain (as in, she had had more appearances than Xykon _or_ Nale\*). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=84)