# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/201 "2014-05-20T19:24:55Z")
More like _informed_ evil at this point. When was the last truly overt evil act that Belkar has committed? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/202 "2014-05-21T00:08:30Z")
Well he’s been a team player since the Mark of Justice was removed, so I’d say Episode 567, when he shish-kebabed the Oracle. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/203 "2014-05-21T02:10:35Z")
Eh, even after that, he was a dick to Jenny, and has taken sadistic glee in a number of situations where he really didn’t have to. Remember, he set himself up as the bully of the gladiator pens, and killed Evisceratus, with whom he didn’t have any legitimate quarrel. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/204 "2014-05-21T02:12:41Z")
It’ll be interesting to see if Belkar stays CE for the whole run of the comic. It’d be interested if he died and ended up in the Neutral afterlife, with the appropriate afterlife critter noting that his last few months of life got him darn close to a Chaotic Good ending. Clearly, he was still evil as of the pyramid, since the Holy Word affected him, but since then? Hmm ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/205 "2014-05-21T02:12:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > and killed Evisceratus, with whom he didn’t have any legitimate quarrel. Correction: Belkar’s cat killed Evisceratus while Belkar was still trying to figure out the ethics of killing the guy himself. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/206 "2014-05-21T02:17:35Z")
The cat is one of Belkar’s class features. He’s still responsible for that. And he had no qualms about doing it himself; he was just worried that he’d get in trouble for it. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/207 "2014-05-21T03:14:25Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > Thor’s actually paying attention to downstairs? Huh. That’s never happened before. I guess that’s what happens when you take His Nuts in vain. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/208 "2014-05-21T04:57:55Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Clearly, he was still evil as of the pyramid, since the Holy Word affected him, but since then? Hmm Holy Word affects non-good characters. The flying kobold guy - can’t remember the name - is a Neutral. But for what’s it’s worth, yeah I think Belkar’s still evil. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/209 "2014-05-21T08:24:42Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > More like _informed_ evil at this point. When was the last truly overt evil act that Belkar has committed? Exactly. Belkar is still evil but now he’s figured out how to be evil in a socially acceptable manner. I think his alignment shift, if any, has been from chaotic evil to lawful evil. The only genuine good in Belkar is his feelings for Mr Scruffy and Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/210 "2014-05-21T09:10:36Z")
I think the whole point, thematically speaking, is that evil is as evil does. Or to quote a different movie, it’s not what’s inside that’s important - it’s what you do that counts. A Belkar who does not do evil acts is a de facto non-evil Belkar. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/211 "2014-05-21T13:20:15Z")
Well, he’s been hanging around with a mostly good PC party, and has not hindered their mission one whit, in the main, and even called out the potential hindering evil in the party awhile back (Durkula), and even used a phrase such as “He stands against all that we stand for!”-doesn’t that count? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/212 "2014-05-21T13:22:48Z")
I’m wondering, does Belkar get to have two animal companions now? I thought it was supposed to be a unique kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/213 "2014-05-21T13:28:52Z")
Mr. Scruffy is his animal companion, who shares a special bond with him and increases in power as he does. Bloodfeast the Extreminator is just a pet, who sticks around with Belkar because he feeds him well. And even at his worst, Belkar almost never went around murdering his party-mates (they’re too convenient to him alive). Almost everyone else he’s been interacting with lately has been evil and acceptable for him to kill. And the last time he was in the presence of non-evil people he didn’t need, he was evil to them, too. What more evil do you expect from him? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/214 "2014-05-22T22:36:02Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Correction: Belkar’s cat killed Evisceratus while Belkar was still trying to figure out the ethics of killing the guy himself. Yes, but, OTOH, Belkar has recently shown signs of real, ranger-ish, sincere sentimental affection for . . . for Bloodfeast the Extreme-Inator . . . all right, but he **still** showed concern for the tyrannosaur even after it was turned into a lizard, so that’s something in the way of character development . . . I think . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/215 "2014-05-22T22:40:37Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > He’ll talk his way out of it, for the moment. It wouldn’t make narrative sense to fail so quickly. Belkar already suspects, and he’ll be the one who finds positive proof of the deception. Come to think of it . . . how did they not realize already that an Evil Durkon is driving the Durkon they know around like a carriage? If vampirization in the OOTS universe involves a new, evil spirit taking over the vampire’s body while the old mortal spirit remains trapped and helpless inside . . . well, wouldn’t everybody **know** that? It is not the sort of thing that ever seems to take anybody by surprise, it would seem to be more of an everybody-knows thing, like what hit points are or what plane sylphs come from. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/216 "2014-05-22T23:32:43Z")
We have no reason to believe that this is a standard vampirization. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/217 "2014-05-23T00:13:27Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > We have no reason to believe that this is a standard vampirization. Durkon got bitten, he turned – what’s non-standard? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/218 "2014-05-23T00:19:01Z")
The goddess Hel sent a spirit of some kind to take over his body. That might be a standard part of the vampirization process, or it might not be. There’s no evidence either way. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/219 "2014-05-23T00:38:18Z")
The vast majority of people in OOTS land probably never encounter vampires outside of scary stories swapped as kids. Even if knowledge of vampires was widespread, the vamp spirit has no reason to let the world know it’s hiding a soul inside the mind. Every vampire could be like that, but nobody but the vampirized are aware. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/220 "2014-05-23T00:52:39Z")
Besides which, who in the Order knows about undead? Elan has Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill, but do you really trust him to know anything? Vaarsuvius does too, but e probably left that one for the party cleric to focus on. Which means that the only person who would have a chance of knowing such things would be… Wait, uh-oh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=12)