# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2341 "2016-01-12T19:55:36Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Technically, Elan’s prophecy may have already been fulfilled. His “happy ending” was the big illusion right before the last gate. We don’t know for sure that the Oracle was referring to this and not something else, but the Oracle is a sucker for technical predictions, and the strip in question was titled “Happy Ending.” Actually, I’m pretty sure Elan has gotten a LOT of Happy Endings. [Beginning with this one.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2342 "2016-01-12T20:03:09Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > One of the vamps doesn’t look especially angry. I guess her worst day wasn’t too bad. She’s thirsty though. And now she’s in the power sphere with Durkevil and his thrall. I’m guessing she’s not just another minion. I assumed that’s the New High Priest one. For being a bunch of high clerics, the combined Wisdom score in that room right now is about 7. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2343 "2016-01-12T20:52:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I assumed that’s the New High Priest one. Nope, the new High Priestess has a morningstar. That one does not. I’m going to guess that that vampire will accompany Durkula when he teleports away. The High Priestess needs to stay in the room to keep Hel’s vote valid. She’ll probably have to mistform to stay out of Roy’s reach, but still not leave the room. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2344 "2016-01-12T20:58:09Z")
Ah, I’ll admit that I didn’t bother looking too hard (or double checking). Having the new High Priest be protected from Roy’s attack in the shell made sense to me so I just assumed. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2345 "2016-01-12T21:50:11Z")
Wait, how is Roy able to kill a vampire with a sword? Or the cleric via a flame strike for that matter? [SRD says](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm): > [@D20srd](#): > > If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, [a vampire] automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed > > […] > > **Slaying a Vampire** > Reducing a vampire’s hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn’t always destroy it (see the note on fast healing). However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action and is destroyed utterly in the next round if it cannot escape. Similarly, immersing a vampire in running water robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round of immersion. Driving a wooden stake through a vampire’s heart instantly slays the monster. However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the body is destroyed. A popular tactic is to cut off the creature’s head and fill its mouth with holy wafers (or their equivalent). So shouldn’t some of these ‘dead’ vampires instead be gaseous clouds (for a couple of hours), not exes-in-eyes? Even if they have no coffin? (For that matter, how did Roy chop one in two? I thought the ‘ushers’ were all high level clerics, like everyone else in the meeting? Should Roy really be able to cream-puff one?) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2346 "2016-01-12T21:58:04Z")
The ushers are all clerics, but there’s no particular reason to assume that they’re all high level. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2347 "2016-01-12T23:37:51Z")
They are gaseous clouds, which they go to after the XX-eyes. In panel 5, for example, there’s a blackish vapor swirling around where there wasn’t one in panel 3. That’s the mistform of the one killed in panel 3. I’m going to guess that there’s no eyes/mouth (unlike the mistform that Gontor had) on these because of the zero HP. There’s more of these blackish clouds in the last panel. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2348 "2016-01-12T23:40:16Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2349 "2016-01-13T12:11:12Z")
_Technically_ the pro-end-of-world clerics don’t need to support the vamps - in fact, they could fight against them given that the vampires are violating the Godsmoot rules. However, I suppose in a Big Picture sense they have a motivation for inconveniencing Roy, who is trying to save the world. Gaah. Now I sound like Roy. Talky-man think too much. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2350 "2016-01-13T22:47:46Z")
At least one pro-end-of-the-world cleric _is_ fighting the vampires. The first one to throw a Flamestrike (in panel 4) is the HP of Sunna, who voted Yes. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2351 "2016-01-14T02:21:37Z")
It’s a good opportunity for clerics of gods that are having second thoughts about their vote (like Loki) to alter the outcome without altering their vote. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2352 "2016-01-14T04:07:35Z")
Loki isn’t having second thoughts about his vote. He wanted to save the world, and now he has even more reason to want that. Heimdall and his cleric probably are having second thoughts, though. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2353 "2016-01-14T16:30:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree. The clerics see the horde of vampires attacking Roy and are defending him by attacking the vampires. But Roy is thinking strategically; Durkon may not be attacking anyone at the moment but he’s the real threat that needs to be eliminated. So the clerics should have let Roy defend himself and focused their attacks against Durkon. Yip. Unless they just didn’t hear what Durkula\* said, it seems that Clerics don’t have high Wisdom or Intelligence. Obviously Roy is an acceptable loss–they can even res him later. The guy who is going to manipulate the vote to force the end of the world should be the target for anyone who doesn’t want it to end. \*I insist on separating the characters ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2354 "2016-01-14T17:20:41Z")
Yeah, these clerics are all morons. I’m sure the Burlew reason is “Roy & the Order are the heroes so the clerics can’t toast Durkon because it’s not their story to save the world and blah blah etc” but the set-up makes you scratch your head. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2355 "2016-01-16T01:56:57Z")
Still, I like the idea of Neutral Evil using Lawful Neutral to accomplish its goals. And because any alignment conversation inevitably creates arguments, I’ll put out my reasoning here: Yes, I don’t see Hel as lawful evil. She is beholden to laws, but not of her own choice. So she constantly sets out finding loopholes. I almost said Chaotic Evil, but Chaotic Evil has no goals beyond evil and chaos. (And, believe me, I wish I could have said Chaotic evil. It would have been more satisfying.) And, of course, if the system were Lawful Good, then her evil goal and manipulating of the law would be enough to invalidate Hel’s schemes. And if the system were Lawful Evil, there would not be the possibility of a Good outcome. The Godsmoot rules are clearly Lawful Neutral. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2356 "2016-01-16T02:37:24Z")
“Finding loopholes to do what you want,” is pretty much the definition of Lawful Evil. And Chaotic Evil can certainly have goals beyond “chaos and evil.” Alignment doesn’t dictate your goals, it describes how you go about attaining them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2357 "2016-01-16T04:28:26Z")
Yeah, compare Belkar’s version of a loophole, which is basically “I don’t give a damn what the rules say”. Chaotic doesn’t care about loopholes at all, because they’re going to ignore the rules with or without loopholes. Neutral might take advantage of a loophole if there’s one easily available, but isn’t going to spend too much effort looking for one. Lawful, however, thrives on loopholes. As Asmodeus said after signing the Pact Primeval, “Read the fine print.”. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2358 "2016-01-16T07:52:20Z")
Perhaps the high priests failed their Listen Checks when Gontula revealed the plan. So to them, one vampire target is as good as another. Besides which Durkula was a forbidden target just a couple rounds ago, and perhaps they haven’t adjusted their thinking on that yet. BTW, the vampires are not attacking Roy or anyone else. They’re just running towards Durkevil. (Note that the new High Priestess says “you know what to do”, not “Attack, my pretties!”.) I expect he’ll soon teleport out with whichever ones make it through the gantlet of Roy and the HP’s spells. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2359 "2016-01-18T13:59:08Z")
1019 is up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2360 "2016-01-18T14:04:26Z")
Too bad Roy only bothered to try throwing his sword when it was too late. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=119)