# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 126
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2501 "2016-03-16T16:04:17Z")
To me, this strip shows how the distinction between Evil and Neutral are not as clear cut as you’d think. They were willing to actively impede Good, resulting in Evil winning. They completely ignored their own self-interest, seeing as the afterlife–which they know exists–is not good for neutrals. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2502 "2016-03-16T16:19:00Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > We’ve already gotten to know Bandana and Andi a little, but who can now say what thrilling or tragic adventure Eyepatch Guy or Other Eyepatch Guy or even Lavender Mohawk Girl could be involved in in the near future? I predict big things for that xorn in the final panel 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2503 "2016-03-16T17:53:47Z")
> [@Enterprise](#): > > New one up! [Don’t Even Ask About Electrum](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html). Though: > > Is it me, or is this a problem solved that nobody even thought was a problem in the first place–a loose end unravelled in the first panel just so it can be stowed tightly in the last (well, next to last)? Story-telling wise, it doesn’t really seem to get us anywhere… [spoiler] On the contrary. There have been seeds of Andi’s disgruntlement shown previously. Readers have been foreseeing a conflict between them almost since the book began. It looks likely to be a major plot point in this arc. See: [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0952.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0952.html) [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0988.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0988.html) Also pink-hair complains about being a sky taxi [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0990.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0990.html) So, in answer to your question, people did see the problem before, and it probably isn’t solved. This is a good plot-advancing strip. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2504 "2016-03-16T20:11:02Z")
I think this is foreshadowing. Andi’s behavior has seemed strange all along (going back to her first appearance and the name change). I’m wondering if she’s an agent for one of the other factions in the struggle over the Gates. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2505 "2016-03-16T20:35:45Z")
I think that the biggest thing about this strip is that it highlights just how filthy stinking rich a high-level D&D party is. For the crew, that 200 GP each is of literally Earth-shaking importance: It’s more relevant to their decisions than is the impending End of the World. But for Roy, even paying the entire crew is just pocket change. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2506 "2016-03-16T20:37:13Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > To me, this strip shows how the distinction between Evil and Neutral are not as clear cut as you’d think. They were willing to actively impede Good, resulting in Evil winning. They completely ignored their own self-interest, seeing as the afterlife–which they know exists–is not good for neutrals. The problem is, the ship’s crew\* doesn’t actually know or believe that.\* They probably run into adventurers on a “quest to save the world” on a regular basis; this once, it’s the literal truth, but they don’t know that it is. And even if the Order tried explaining the whole thing to the crew there’s no guarantee they’d actually be _believed._ On the other hand, Roy can just throw money at the problem and make it go away, for now at least. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2507 "2016-03-16T20:55:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > …the afterlife … is not good for neutrals. Why do you say that? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2508 "2016-03-17T07:57:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > To me, this strip shows how the distinction between Evil and Neutral are not as clear cut as you’d think. They were willing to actively impede Good, resulting in Evil winning. They are not actively impeding Good. They have been actively helping Good, but there are limits to how much they are willing to sacrifice for Good’s cause. To act like they’re borderline evil for that is absurd. If somebody goes to Africa to work in a humanitarian mission, it is not borderline evil to want to come back to their regular life some day. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2509 "2016-03-17T08:10:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > To me, this strip shows how the distinction between Evil and Neutral are not as clear cut as you’d think… One could assert just as well that “the distinction between _Good_ and Neutral is not as clear cut as you’d think.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2510 "2016-03-17T11:08:20Z")
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2511 "2016-03-17T16:56:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality? There are 45 years of Deep And Profound Gamer Speculation on what alignment actually IS, ready to leap into this discussion with both hooves. Beware completing the summoning… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2512 "2016-03-18T16:05:00Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > There are 45 years of Deep And Profound Gamer Speculation on what alignment actually IS, ready to leap into this discussion with both hooves. Beware completing the summoning… 😃 I, for one, can barely restrain myself. ---
**Author:** ![Enterprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/76d3ee/32.png) [@Enterprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enterprise)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2513 "2016-03-18T17:21:30Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [spoiler] On the contrary. There have been seeds of Andi’s disgruntlement shown previously. Readers have been foreseeing a conflict between them almost since the book began. It looks likely to be a major plot point in this arc. > > See: > [952 Weather or Not - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0952.html) > [988 Much Less Swordfighting - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0988.html) > > Also pink-hair complains about being a sky taxi > [990 Critiquing Suspicion - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0990.html) > > So, in answer to your question, people did see the problem before, and it probably isn’t solved. This is a good plot-advancing strip. [/spoiler] Good catch! Let me amend my disappointment thusly: even if it’s been laid in before, it’s still boring. Rich may still prove me wrong, but to throw a “disgruntled engineer/pirate finds their work distasteful”-wrench into proceedings when we could be hunting a gaggle of Durkonpires and catch up with Xykon? Boring. It may just be me not seeing the point. Need to get rid of the conveniently quick sky ship? Have to blow up, or break down, or be set on fire by the vampires. Have it taken away in what amounts to a union strike? Well. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2514 "2016-03-18T19:18:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality? Who knows what neutrality lurks in the hearts of men ? The Chartered Accountant knows ! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2515 "2016-03-18T19:22:40Z")
> [@Enterprise](#): > > Good catch! Let me amend my disappointment thusly: even if it’s been laid in before, it’s still boring. Rich may still prove me wrong, but to throw a “disgruntled engineer/pirate finds their work distasteful”-wrench into proceedings when we could be hunting a gaggle of Durkonpires and catch up with Xykon? Boring. > > It may just be me not seeing the point. Need to get rid of the conveniently quick sky ship? Have to blow up, or break down, or be set on fire by the vampires. Have it taken away in what amounts to a union strike? Well. I figure he’s setting up a betrayal by Disgruntled Scarf Lady at some point and/or an ill-timed mutiny to add tension to an already otherwise tense sitch, such as when some member of the Order is in dire need of a flying ship ex machina or when the last gate goes kablooey. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2516 "2016-03-18T19:42:22Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > One could assert just as well that “the distinction between _Good_ and Neutral is not as clear cut as you’d think.” Maybe, but it’s not as blurry as the line between Neutral and Evil. I read the evil alignment description, and it includes people who are completely indifferent to the harm they cause others\*. But that can easily encompass Neutral as well. I would call all these people Neutral. But they are indeed indifferent to the harm that their actions right here would cause others. \*If I made the system for real life, indifference would be neutral, and only active desire to harm would be evil. But the problem is, there aren’t really all that many people who are evil by that definition. You don’t really have a lot of story potential with that type of evil. Most evil thinks they are doing something that is either good for the world or good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2517 "2016-03-18T19:52:30Z")
Well, the value of a GP in D&D has always been extremely wonky. All too often they’re treated like 1gp = $1. I typically assign a value of $50 to a gp and then alter prices accordingly. Like it would be ludicrous to pay 25gp ($1250) for smelling salts, and no Hobgoblin is going to pay $2500 (50gp) for something that gentles down a slave for a few minutes at best. Likewise, a +1 Flaming arrow comes out to 360gp, or $18,000 each, which is beyond silly. So by ‘normal silly D&D’ values, they just got @ $200 each, where by my valuation, they got $10,000 each. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2518 "2016-03-18T19:53:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why do you say that? My understanding is that Limbo is basically pure Chaos, and Mechanus is pure Law. Neither is really that great a place to anyone but the extremes. And no one is really at the extremes. Gold definitely isn’t that useful there, for sure. Gold would disrupt the perfect order of Mechanus. And how can there be an agreement to exchange gold for something without the slightest bit of lawfulness? (That is, assuming gold doesn’t just change like the environment of Limbo. I’m currently listening to [Dice Funk](http://channelawesome.com/tag/dice-funk/), a D&D5 campaign, and the one thing that the cleric stresses is that there is an afterlife, and it’s not good for neutrals. And he has stressed this out of character, too. (The fighter still chooses to be as close to an atheist as one can be in D&D, even while admitting that the afterlife exists.) So, while that’s D&D5, I assume that it carries over, and even True Neutrals don’t really have a great place there. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2519 "2016-03-18T20:01:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Chimera** : > > I typically assign a value of $50 to a gp and then alter prices accordingly. Like it would be ludicrous to pay 25gp ($1250) for smelling salts, and no Hobgoblin is going to pay $2500 (50gp) for something that gentles down a slave for a few minutes at best. So ordinary hobgoblins won’t have smelling salts, or whatever alchemical item it is you’re thinking of. > [@](#): > > Likewise, a +1 Flaming arrow comes out to 360gp, or $18,000 each, which is beyond silly. I’m sure there are plenty of real-world munitions that do in fact cost that much per shot. They’re not something that your standard ordinary grunts would use, but high-level characters are far from being ordinary grunts. And the best estimate I’ve seen actually puts the GP at closer to $200, but of course it depends on how you measure, and the basic point is still the same. Certainly, the crew of the Mechane is not accepting a multi-day high-risk job for a mere $200 each. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2520 "2016-03-18T22:07:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m currently listening to [Dice Funk](http://channelawesome.com/tag/dice-funk/), a D&D5 campaign, and the one thing that the cleric stresses is that there is an afterlife, and it’s not good for neutrals. And he has stressed this out of character, too. (The fighter still chooses to be as close to an atheist as one can be in D&D, even while admitting that the afterlife exists.) > > So, while that’s D&D5, I assume that it carries over, and even True Neutrals don’t really have a great place there. I don’t know pretty much anything about 5th Ed, but in 3.5 and prior every alignment had its own Outer Plane, including True Neutrality. Now, things weren’t good for ATHEISTS in the Forgotten Realms AD&D cosmology…they got mortared into the wall (not behind the stones…AS the stones) around the god of Death’s city and were subject to capture by demons and devils during raids against that city. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=125) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=127)