# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2561 "2016-03-29T23:02:28Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > They appear to be walking to the pole with no supplies or food. And you’re worried about a magic cloak? _Create Food & Water_ is a level 3 clerical spell so it stands to reason the paladins could cast it as needed during their trip. I don’t know what travel options are available to clerics these days, especially ones from the southern pantheon (who knows what domains they have available?). I would assume that, by the fact the two of them are traveling alone, something happened to make magical travel impractical. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2562 "2016-03-29T23:24:37Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Eh, a lot of magic items don’t make real sense. > > A belt of dexterity? You have to wear it for 24 hours before it’s not a ‘temporary’ bonus? > > So then you can never take it off or change your clothing? Or how does that work? Keep yourself and your clothes clean with a prestidigitation cantrip. No need for baths or laundry. Wear the same clothes for months. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2563 "2016-03-30T01:45:05Z")
…do those of us with better memories know why they are going to the pole, or is it a mystery? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2564 "2016-03-30T01:56:41Z")
See: [671 Also, She Needs Her Clothes Back Now - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html) and: [672 A Familiar Conclusion - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html) ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2565 "2016-03-30T03:24:37Z")
I love O-Chul and Lien so much. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2566 "2016-03-30T03:35:27Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Seriously, did they lose all their high level teleporting clerics in the war? [It was actually right before the war.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2567 "2016-03-30T04:33:55Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > See: [671 Also, She Needs Her Clothes Back Now - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html) > and: [672 A Familiar Conclusion - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html) Strong work. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2568 "2016-03-30T08:47:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > [It was actually right before the war.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html) And there was [this guy](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html)too (although [he was robbed](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html)!). ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2569 "2016-03-30T13:27:39Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > _Create Food & Water_ is a level 3 clerical spell so it stands to reason the paladins could cast it as needed during their trip. It is a clerical spell but it’s not on the [paladin spell list](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm) . [Create Water](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm) is available but not the food equivalent. Incidentally, they didn’t have to have the items to handle the cold since [Endure Elements](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/endureElements.htm) is on their spell list, but they probably want to save their meager spell slots, (they get 5 per day at 15th level, and only one is fourth level, assuming they don’t have a wisdom bonus, which honestly they probably have a high one). I assume they are eating the 1d3 polar bears they encounter per day as random encounters. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2570 "2016-03-30T14:54:45Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > It is a clerical spell but it’s not on the [paladin spell list](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm) . Back in MY day… Well, fine. I see that “_Heal Mount_” is on the list. Summon shark, cut off dinner, _Heal_, and dismiss 😛 Wha? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2571 "2016-03-30T15:22:57Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Back in MY day… > > Well, fine. I see that “_Heal Mount_” is on the list. Summon shark, cut off dinner, _Heal_, and dismiss 😛 > > Wha? The “Wha” is probably losing paladin status for a continuous strand of evil acts 😃 But more crunch happy, the paladin’s probably don’t want to be burning a third level spell they only get one of to eat every day. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2572 "2016-03-30T17:50:17Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > The “Wha” is probably losing paladin status for a continuous strand of evil acts 😃 Not _all_ that different from the way the OOTS had been feeding nose-fur-atu. Vampire bite followed by restore. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2573 "2016-03-30T19:07:20Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Not _all_ that different from the way the OOTS had been feeding nose-fur-atu. Vampire bite followed by restore. Vampire. Evil. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2574 "2016-03-31T02:47:53Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > The “Wha” is probably losing paladin status for a continuous strand of evil acts 😃 I’m apparently unclear on what counts as evil in D&D. Is it the hurting the animal rather than killing it cleanly–even if you take the pain away right away? Because I assume they can kill and eat, and a kill might hurt for a bit before it happens. Or is it maybe the summoning of the mount for that purpose that’s evil? Or the level of intelligence of the mount making it count differently? Sorry to ask such a basic question, but I’m mostly familiar with D&D from watching others, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game with a paladin. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2575 "2016-03-31T03:26:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m apparently unclear on what counts as evil in D&D. Is it the hurting the animal rather than killing it cleanly–even if you take the pain away right away? Because I assume they can kill and eat, and a kill might hurt for a bit before it happens. > > Or is it maybe the summoning of the mount for that purpose that’s evil? Or the level of intelligence of the mount making it count differently? > > Sorry to ask such a basic question, but I’m mostly familiar with D&D from watching others, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game with a paladin. Even if you take the pain away, you’re still inflicting major suffering on another creature. If you’re doing that just because it’s more convenient than packing some iron rations, that’s a pretty selfish act. And paladins are supposed to be selfless. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2576 "2016-03-31T03:43:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Even if you take the pain away, you’re still inflicting major suffering on another creature. If you’re doing that just because it’s more convenient than packing some iron rations, that’s a pretty selfish act. And paladins are supposed to be selfless. And, as I said, wouldn’t killing animals be doing the same thing? You will be causing them major suffering until they die. I took it as given that the comments about killing polar bears meant killing for food was okay. In other words, how is this worse than actually killing animals? It seems to me that the suffering might even take up less time, depending on the dice rolls. Can you may target your kills? I thought everything just had one HP meter. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2577 "2016-03-31T06:58:34Z")
A paladin’s mount is a gift to them from their deity and is an intelligent celestial creature which shares an empathic link with the paladin. Hacking away at it would be more like V cutting off one of Blackwing’s wings because V casually needed it as a spell component than it would be like killing a (normal) animal for food. At the very least, it would be a severe abuse of their relationship and wouldn’t be keeping with the virtues of a paladin. It would also, technical definition of “evil” aside, likely provoke the ire of your deity just for the misuse of their gift. Sort of like being given a magical helm by your god to aid you and instead using it as a chamber pot. Stuff in D&D indeed has just one hit point meter although a DM would probably allow for targeted shots, perhaps with a penalty (“I try to hit his wand-holding hand with an arrow”) and you could, of course, do an action like cutting the finger off a bound prisoner. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2578 "2016-03-31T14:31:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, as I said, wouldn’t killing animals be doing the same thing? You will be causing them major suffering until they die. I took it as given that the comments about killing polar bears meant killing for food was okay. > > In other words, how is this worse than actually killing animals? It seems to me that the suffering might even take up less time, depending on the dice rolls. There’s a difference between killing a mindless animal that attacked you and excruciatingly chopping muscle off a living, intelligent animal you bonded with. Most of us don’t get upset at the fact that a cow was killed instantly so we could have a burger, but we’d probably all balk at the idea of eating the family dog while it was still alive, awake, and aware of what was happening, even if there were magic spells that could heal the dog. And then deciding you’re going to chew off the dog’s leg and restore it daily for a month? That’s some horrific torture. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2579 "2016-03-31T17:10:20Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > There’s a difference between killing a mindless animal that attacked you and excruciatingly chopping muscle off a living, intelligent animal you bonded with. > > Most of us don’t get upset at the fact that a cow was killed instantly so we could have a burger, but we’d probably all balk at the idea of eating the family dog while it was still alive, awake, and aware of what was happening, even if there were magic spells that could heal the dog. And then deciding you’re going to chew off the dog’s leg and restore it daily for a month? That’s some horrific torture. But aren’t the mounts also supposed to be self-sacrificing and fearless like their Paladin partners? [I mean, a pig like that, you don’t eat all at once.](https://www.google.com/search?q=eat+a+pig+like+that+all+at+once&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/2580 "2016-03-31T18:58:33Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > But aren’t the mounts also supposed to be self-sacrificing and fearless like their Paladin partners? Paladins get Aura of Courage, and they do share saving throws with their mount, but I don’t think those two abilities interact to make the mount fearless as well. However, the ability that would _really_ hamper this plan is the empathic link, which I imagine is going to be flooding the paladin with some unpleasant emotions if said paladin were to start hacking off a limb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=130)